Breaking News: Trump says he has seen evidence virus came from Wuhan Lab

[MicroBrew]

Market was the site of the first mass infection, but it wasn't the source. First known patient in Wuhan was unrelated to the wildlife market. Even the Chinese authorities and their researchers confirmed this.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally

So the likely chain of transmission is patient zero -> market -> hospital staff -> hospital patients -> general public

I wrote the below in post# 163 (page 10)

"2) A worker or seller or buyer at the market was infected before they came into contact with the market. At the market they infected others."

This person may have worked at 1 of the Wuhan labs or been an outside contractor who visited the lab and got infected and then visited the market. Or the person who introduced the virus into the market may have no connection to the lab, either directly or indirectly.

 

[MicroBrew]

I dont think ive gone as far as to 'rubbish' those claims, in fact ive said elsewhere that i think that the lab escape theory should remain part of the discussion (but not the bioweapon theory), because until its disproven, its dishonest to exclude it. I would only impart people to judge the plausibility of either theory based on the evidence that supports it. As far as i can see, the evidence to support a lab escape is circumstantial in nature, whereas the view that i hold (that the virus emerged in nature, possibly actually near Guangdong), is supported by genetic and structural analysis of the virus.

The bio-weapon theory is a bit of a strawman argument, which some media knowingly or inadvertendly advance by their misleading editorial headlines. The Trump admin and YouTuber laowhy86 who was the first to really delve into the lab theory don't claim it is a bio-weapon. Originally I was totally set on this virus coming out of the market as a resuly of cruel and unhygenic practices and exotic animal trade. I innitially thought the lab theory was silly. I changed my mind after watching laowhy86's video.

 

[Andy Capp]

I am shocked those in the west are so quick to defend china over Trump. Like or dislike him he is one of the wests and has its interests in mind. China wants the collapse of the US and defacto enslavement of its adversaries.

I, for one, am shocked that I never knew shitting on someone for something he did wrong meant I was defending someone else for some other totally different shitty thing they did wrong.

 

[HARRISON_3]

Trump's word is as good as gold, IMO

 

[Deleted member 539235]

"Well it seems reasonable to me that it came form a lab, therefore it did come from a lab."
or
"muh president, muh furriners, herp, derp"

what's unreasonable about it?

not american and i clown on trump daily btw

 

[Fugazy]

Then given that it is naturally occurring, what says it escaped a lab rather than originating in the wild? Are people now just accepting as fact anything that sounds like it could happen?

I'm not really sure what you are asking here, no offense

 

[Andy Capp]

I'm not really sure what you are asking here, no offense

By application of Occam's Razor. There is no need for any intermediary step between occurrence of the virus in animals and human infection so every one you add makes the resulting scenario less likely.

I would add on the end of that, ...less likely unless there's some clear evidence to suspect a connection between the lab and the outbreak. If there isn't then it's just a baseless CT.

So, I am asking, is there any evidence whatsoever of a connection and if so what is it?

As far as conspiracy theories go, the idea that covid19 escaped from a research lab seems less stupid than a lot of others things people believe in, but it still seems much less likely.

Well sure, it's not crazy to entertain the possibility if there's any real reason to cast suspicion, but there needs to be some kind of probable cause for suspicion to go beyond the obvious explanation for the outbreak.

 

[Fugazy]

I would add on the end of that, ...less likely unless there's some clear evidence to suspect a connection between the lab and the outbreak. If there isn't then it's just a baseless CT.

So, I am asking, is there any evidence whatsoever of a connection and if so what is it?
Well sure, it's not crazy to entertain the possibility if there's any real reason to cast suspicion, but there needs to be some kind of probable cause for suspicion to go beyond the obvious explanation for the outbreak.

What is the obvious explanation you are going with?

Legitimately asking.

 

[Crom Cruach]

what's unreasonable about it?

not american and i clown on trump daily btw

It's not backed up with anything from the scientific community.

 

[Lowiqredneck]

This is an excerpt from a short article discrediting the claims that the virus was created in a lab; i think its a quite clear and succinct explanation, that might help you to decide:

"Currently, there are speculations, rumours and conspiracy theories that SARS-CoV-2 is of laboratory origin. Some people have alleged that the human SARS-CoV-2 was leaked directly from a laboratory in Wuhan where a bat CoV (RaTG13) was recently reported, which shared 96% homology with the SARS-CoV-2 [4]. However, as we know, the human SARS-CoV and intermediate host palm civet SARS-like CoV shared 99.8% homology, with a total of 202 single-nucleotide (nt) variations (SNVs) identified across the genome [6]. Given that there are greater than 1,100 nt differences between the human SARS- CoV-2 and the bat RaTG13-CoV [4], which are distributed throughout the genome in a naturally occurring pattern following the evolutionary characteristics typical of CoVs, it is highly unlikely that RaTG13 CoV is the immediate source of SARS- CoV-2. The absence of a logical targeted pattern in the new viral sequences and a close relative in a wildlife species (bats) are the most revealing signs that SARS-CoV-2 evolved by natural evolution. "

Hey thank you for sending me the link to this. I'll read through it.

 

[MicroBrew]

I would add on the end of that, ...less likely unless there's some clear evidence to suspect a connection between the lab and the outbreak. If there isn't then it's just a baseless CT.

So, I am asking, is there any evidence whatsoever of a connection and if so what is it?
Well sure, it's not crazy to entertain the possibility if there's any real reason to cast suspicion, but there needs to be some kind of probable cause for suspicion to go beyond the obvious explanation for the outbreak.

There is quite a bit of reason as to why the accidental escape scenario is not far fetched. For one thing, SARS escaped from a Beijing lab twice. Other nations have had viruses escape confinement and kill people.

Also watch this 10min video.

 

[Deleted member 539235]

It's not backed up with anything from the scientific community.

been following the covid threads since v3 or so and haven’t seen anything very convincing to say it originated in the wet market either

to be clear i’m not talking about the virus being “created” in the lab, coronaviruses were studied there and it’s not out of this world to think there could’ve been a containment issue, accidental exposure of a technician or improper disposal or theft of test subjects

 

[badascan]

Here's a video citing many coincidences. papers published on coronoavirus' transferred from bats to people, including a newly created, synthetic, self replicating, chimiric virus that's incurable and able to cross species, created using a coronavirus found in chinese horseshoe bats... the person who conducted these experiments worked in a lab in Wuhan China... the same lab that posted a job add seeking scientists to research the relationship between the coronavirus and bats, etc, etc, etc, etc....

*edit: "transferred"...

 

[Grenz]

The bio-weapon theory is a bit of a strawman argument, which some media knowingly or inadvertendly advance by their misleading editorial headlines. The Trump admin and YouTuber laowhy86 who was the first to really delve into the lab theory don't claim it is a bio-weapon. Originally I was totally set on this virus coming out of the market as a resuly of cruel and unhygenic practices and exotic animal trade. I innitially thought the lab theory was silly. I changed my mind after watching laowhy86's video.

There is quite a bit of reason as to why the accidental escape scenario is not far fetched. For one thing, SARS escaped from a Beijing lab twice. Other nations have had viruses escape confinement and kill people.

Also watch this 10min video.

I'll be honest, I thought this was going to be retarded. But the TLDW is that scientists collected the virus from bats in a rural southern province and handled it carelessly in the lab, infecting themselves, and that's how it got out.....which is entirely believable. IMO there have to be repercussions against China for the handling of this virus. They could have done much, much more than they did, and egregiously lied to the entire international community (Jan 2020: 'We're pretty sure human-to-human transmission cannot occur' - An asinine and obviously duplicitous claim in hindsight; the WHO tweet of this claim alone probably has the blood of tens of thousands of lives on its hand). However, if this theory is in fact true, that puts the lies and deceit on another level. I genuinely believe that if something like this happened in Canada, the US, Germany, or another competent country, the alarms would have been immediately rung, and steps would have been taken to immediately contain the spread. In China's case however the first instinct apparently wasn't 'How can we contain this?', but rather 'How do we hide this?' which seem like similar questions that would arrive at more or less the same conclusions, but they clearly didn't.

 

[MicroBrew]

I'll be honest, I thought this was going to be retarded. But the TLDW is that scientists collected the virus from bats in a rural southern province and handled it carelessly in the lab, infecting themselves, and that's how it got out.....which is entirely believable. IMO there have to be repercussions against China for the handling of this virus. They could have done much, much more than they did, and egregiously lied to the entire international community (Jan 2020: 'We're pretty sure human-to-human transmission cannot occur' - An asinine and obviously duplicitous claim in hindsight; the WHO tweet of this claim alone probably has the blood of tens of thousands of lives on its hand). However, if this theory is in fact true, that puts the lies and deceit on another level. I genuinely believe that if something like this happened in Canada, the US, Germany, or another competent country, the alarms would have been immediately rung, and steps would have been taken to immediately contain the spread. In China's case however the first instinct apparently wasn't 'How can we contain this?', but rather 'How do we hide this?' which seem like similar questions that would arrive at more or less the same conclusions, but they clearly didn't.

"How can we hide is this" is always the standard operating procedure for single party authoritarian regimes. A lot of people are calling this China's Chernobyl, because like the USSR hiding Chernobyl, China hid this outbreak. China also covered-up the SARS outbreak in 2002, and only went public when they realized it couldn't be hid anymore.

 

[Prefect]

Jordan Peterson has.

The more I listen to Peterson the less I care for him. He presents himself as a scientist but he is really just a life coach.

 

[Prefect]

Their medical facilities are much inferior to the US, so odds are they have far more deaths.

Oh child. Please don't be one of these people who think the U.S. has the best medical care. Maybe, best specialist, but that is it.

 

[MicroBrew]

Oh child. Please don't be one of these people who think the U.S. has the best medical care. Maybe, best specialist, but that is it.

Better than China , that's for sure. China is still a developing country by and large.

 

[tonni]

The more I listen to Peterson the less I care for him. He presents himself as a scientist but he is really just a life coach.

I have zero cares.

 

[SBJJ]

I'm gonna go a step further. I believe that while this virus was not technically created in the lab. I believe it was tweaked or altered in the lab. I do not believe what the world is dealing with is 100% natural.