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Boxing & Thai

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Chok Sok Te, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Chok Sok Te Purple Belt

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    With yet another Thai ‘specialist’ getting dropped for not having his hands up, it led me to think is there anyone who utilized both really good boxing and Thai fundamentals ?

    TJ is probably the only guy I can think of as an example
     
  2. William Huggins Brown Belt

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    Are you talking about Till?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  3. ironkhan57 Brown Belt

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    It's good to be mixed a little bit. All the muay thai fighters are starting to train boxing as a supplementary style. Hell all fighters supplement their style at one point with boxing.

    Boxing is fun though. I like it and it was part of the reason I had really good footwork and better reflexes for punches. But that was last year. And I haven't trained in a fight gym in a year. So I'm not as good as I was last year right now.
     
  4. shincheckin Black Belt

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    who is the "thai specialist" you are referring to getting dropped? I am going to guess you are speaking of a MMA fight?

    TJ Dillashaw is not a good example of muay thai + boxing IMO. He is a great example of what MMA striking has evolved into, but his style is just that, MMA striking, I wouldnt consider it MT at all. Yeah hes Duanes guy, but Duanes system is geared for MMA and he is producing predominantly MMA fighters.

    good boxing plus thai fundamentals: Dekkers, Anuwat, Samart
     
  5. shincheckin Black Belt

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    $20 bucks says hes talking about Cody No legs.
     
  6. William Huggins Brown Belt

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    Chok is probably drunk on Samsong somewhere........
     
  7. ironkhan57 Brown Belt

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    I actually feel like his style is more kickboxing+boxing. It's more boxing then kickboxing because most of his footwork is taught to him by loma. $15.01 he's talking about robbie Lawler lol.
     
  8. shincheckin Black Belt

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    TJ is Duanes guy, im friends with 2 of duanes pro MMA fighters, when they come to cali they train at a place in OC with TJ. TJ cornered my friend for his last fight. I wouldnt call it dutch kickboxing, more like MMA striking. I do however think it is a perfect representation of what MMA striking should be and what it has evolved into a bit of a combination of everything with an emphasis on hands and being able to go for a takedown. Its really weird your first few times sparring with them because they are cutting so many unorthodox angles etc. Both my friends lived her in Cali and started training after me, I was their muay thai coach when we first met, both of them coincidentally moved to colorado for several years and came back straight beasts after training with duane for a few years. I really dont see anyone in the MMA game right now producing better strikers than Duane with TJ being his top prodigy, which is why he is so famous, hes the first game changer. Much like how mayweather style mittwork changed the game.
     
  9. Chok Sok Te Purple Belt

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    Till was correct. Cody was supposed to have good boxing but was exposed to have pish defense
     
  10. Chok Sok Te Purple Belt

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    My bad I wasn’t particularly clear at all, basically I wanted to know if there is anyone in the game who utilized both of those two striking arts either in the past or present in mma
     
  11. aerius Red Belt

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    There are no Thai specialists in the UFC on the men's side. The closest thing to one is David Teymur who won a bronze at IFMA.

    Till is not a Muay Thai fighter. If you look at his stance & movement, it's a lot closer to karate or kickboxing than MT.
     
  12. William Huggins Brown Belt

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    Till is Muay Thai???? Really................

    Till's fight IQ must have gone to the Maldives that night, it was terrible.
     
  13. Odysseus Orange Belt

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    I have always said this, and it shocks me when he is referred to as a Muay Thai master.
     
  14. ironkhan57 Brown Belt

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    Yeah, I have a friend who trains with duane too, he use to train at american top team but didn't feel it was right for him after he went on a 2 fight losing streak. I don't know how hes doing now i haven't talked to him a while but he was kind of big on footwork so I think tj's camp would be great for him.
     
  15. shincheckin Black Belt

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    i would say just about every mma fighter out there utilizes boxing and muay thai in their fights. to what level is debatble, but everyone cross trains it for mma, the main staples for MMA are: boxing, muay thai, bjj, wrestling. there have been "oddballs" here and there that also implement some other sort of style such as machida for example, but generally speaking, you can expect an mma fighter to be trained in thos martial arts i mentioned.
     
  16. ironkhan57 Brown Belt

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    I can actually see how people think that till is not muay thai, but he has fought muay thai before. And the way he kicks kind of looks like a traditional muay thai kick to me.
     
  17. aerius Red Belt

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    This is Darren Till's stance
    [​IMG]

    This is Lyoto Machida's stance, he's a well known Karate fighter
    [​IMG]

    This is a traditional Muay Thai stance, as shown by Thai stadium champions Nong-O and Singdam
    [​IMG]

    This is a Muay Thai stance adapted for MMA. Shevchenko is a world champ in Muay Thai and a title contender in 2 UFC divisions.
    [​IMG]

    Darren Till's stance is fairly close to Machida's, and if you watch his footwork it's also closer to Machida's than Shevchenko's. There's a lot of emphasis on blitzing straight in with an attack, watch the way he skip steps and lunges in on his opponents, that is not MT footwork. Till has competed in MT in the past but he doesn't fight in a MT style, he looks like someone with a Karate background who went into kickboxing and MMA.
     
  18. ironkhan57 Brown Belt

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    Yeah I wasn't saying he had a muay thai stance, I was saying that he has a muay thai background though and not everybody fights a muay thai stance in muay thai.

    I know of one guy who is a bjj black belt but travels to thailand a lot with my old instructor. And his style is a bit different, he doesn't keep the weight on his back foot. And doesn't keep his hands out in front of him. He does keep his elbows in. And basically he can hit you from all around. In that gym they call him "animal". And I can see why.

    Anyways In conclusion I was saying he had a muay thai background, but just didn't use a muay thai stance. Not that he had a muay thai stance. But his kicks are more like traditional muay thai body kick.
     
  19. William Huggins Brown Belt

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    Lots of people have a "Muay Thai" background, it's just Till doesn't kick like a Nak Muay and more like a Karate KB. I can call a dog a cat but it doesn't make it so.....
     
  20. aerius Red Belt

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    Till's kicks are not traditional Muay Thai kicks. Watch his footwork. He steps and plants his base foot sideways & flat on the ground to open up his hips for the kick. The kick goes wide & around to the target, and when you miss it you end up doing a 360. This is what I call the Brazilian kickboxing method as it's what's used by Shogun, Wandy, Aldo, and most of the other MMA kickboxers from Brazil. It's also the method taught by Bas Rutten.

    The Thai style kick is a bit more complicated. The fighter pops his kicking leg off the ground with his calf & ankles (ever wonder why Nak Muay have giant calves? Yeah, that's why) while coming up on the ball of his foot on the base leg. At the same time he starts pulling the kicking leg up with his hips, and then he'll pivot the base leg to open up the hips and accelerate the kick along with changing its trajectory from mostly upwards to mostly sideways. So you have a kick that comes mostly upwards really fast, then turns sideways and rips through the target. And it can be thrown straight from the stance without first taking a setup step to plant the base leg and open up the hips.

    Nong-O and Singdam demonstrate real Thai style kicks. Darren Till's kicks look nothing like this.
    The closest in the UFC are David Teymur, Anthony Pettis on a good day, and the Shevchenko sisters.
     

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