Born To Hate Jews

[seiger]

I think this testimonial is interesting and from what I've seen an all too common story.

american media primes people to hate muslims, completely irrespective of facts, and completely out of touch with the rest of western society.

whose fault is that?

 

[Gandhi]

This collection of shrapnel does not equate to a bomb. This feels like a colossal waste of time to be honest but here goes.



Sorry, but you are off on so many levels here. I would bet you that easily 95% or more of Muslims think of themselves as "Moderates" and "peaceful" but we know that someone who describes him/herself as such does not equate to them being any of these things.

The video is NOT directed at the moderate with no ill-will for the state of Israel and/or The West. I don't know how you gathered that? It is a testimonial that could be directed at: the naïve Muslim who's never challenged their beliefs, the new-to-the-subject Westerner, an ignorant Politician, or a Muslim extremist - anyone.



These kind of nothing-filled paragraphs are what is going to end this conversation awfully quick. I'd take what I wrote over whatever this is in a heartbeat. And if you're going to call me out for incomplete sentences (which you do in your paragraph 10), then practice what you preach; and include complete words while you're at it.

Further to your paragraph, no one said Israel is the model of democracy. In fact, democracy is rarely if ever perfect. It works in spite of that. Regardless, as this pertains to Israel, why are you butting heads with the video when the speaker describes the model there as "decent." Further, the video is just over four minutes - it's not supposed to rival The Jewish War. It's a testimonial by a Muslim. If you want to question everything including his story that's another matter. Why waste your time watching and commenting then?

Further, as I alluded to originally, if you . . . bear with me . . . had "a clue," or a history in dealing with Muslims in the ME and West generally, you'd know that the speaker's story is absolutely the norm. I have yet to meet ONE Muslim who believes the Jews deserve a state of their own let alone anything in the area of their homeland.

So you wonder why I think you've got some strange motives banging around in your brain when you dismiss the video in the OP in such a snobbish fashion?



It was a four minute testimonial that was accurate to the broad problem of anti-Jew, anti-Israel sentiment within Islam. That is exactly what it was and nothing more. You're making this about something it isn't.



See your paragraph 10 comment.



If you want me to go back and splice together three posts to make a cohesive, truthful narrative about how this conversation transpired, forget it. Again, see your paragraph 10 note to me and write out your words to back up your hoidy toidy.



If you don't know the distinction between sectarian issues due to transmission of authority and interpretation of the Islamic texts and the consistent anti-Jew sentiment of the Islamic texts, what are we doing conversing?



How about you don't know what you are talking about.

Your first paragraph starts with a faulty premise that you even acknowledge with an "I bet you think X". Which may keep you out of complete strawman country but it's basically the same thing. I never said "no hate ttowards Israel or the west", I said Muslims that had not been radicalized so that existing negative feelings towards Israel had not yet been converted into complete hate for the west. The whole point of the video was to counter that trend and you sit here arguing with me about whether these people exist and what their exact characteristics are. Yes it could be aimed at people that are already radical, but the best time to do that is prior to the radicalization occurring. And any faults with the video reaching those not yet radicalized is going to be even more exaggerated with those already radicalized.

It's the definition of a non constructive argument, it sounds like you don't like the video either because you think all muslims are born with a bomb strapped to their chest hating Israel and the west on equal measure right at the outset. Ok that is probabaly a straw man on my part, the reality is you just don't like me using the word "moderate" rather than "not yet converted to devoted radical, naive, etc". Which is a rather silly counter to my point.

The fact that you can't see the areas where we might even have common ground (on the use of Israel as a propaganda a piece to radicalize Muslims against the west) just confirms JVS' characterization of your posts as rude and a little slow.

Yeah a paragraph declaring yourself the winner, give yourself a cookie. This never was a conversation, this was condescending and dismissive retort that when others called you out on as completely unconstructive, you then backpeddled into a wall of diarrhea text that combined an intentional misrepresenting of my position with random rantings about the UN and the media. So LOL, really, at your threats to end this quick, you are just trying to score points, so feel free to tap out at any time as I would expect we have already entered into wall of text territory that nobody gives a shit about.

Again you are white washing Israel's issues and parsing words to try and score points rather than address anything of substance. The characterization of Israel as a democracy with a few flaws is the whole problem with the video. Western democracies don't occupy large sections of land where their inhabitants don't have a vote. You have not addressed the contradictions that Israel faces as a democracy, which is where the video is s huge fail, and that is telling.

Why waste my time watching? Because the video came across to me as a totally contrived piece of propaganda that would not be an effective communication tool, I should not have watched it in the first place? Is that really the kind of circle jerk reasoning you are going with?

And again......bear with me, you are being a absolute fucking MORAN, when you argue with me over the part of the video that I said had merit, in my first post. Yes Israel is a propaganda tool in the ME. Yes it is used as a gateway for further radicalization.

No I don't expect you to make any effort to understand my position, that would require acknowledging that we agree in some places, and have substantive disagreements in others, and that in turn would require you to retract your dickish BS. So I don't expect that to happen.

Again you ask what we are doing conversing if I don't take your view on things. What should be an interesting and arguable question is again reduced to a dismissive one liner where the conclusion and support are dropped like some universial truth. Dude you simply are sucking at Sherdog here.

The fact that a holy text is in way any being translated into massive amounts of sectarian based violence on the ground both within and external to Islam has a wide range of historical / cultural / blah blah blah reasons. You want to set up some sort of hierarchy of importance based on a book because you have a narrative, fine.

But again if you think anyone who wants to step out of that very limited narrative is not worth conversing with then fine, fuck off already and I'll continue my conversation with the adults in the room that I was having before you poked your rude slow nose in.

 

[Gandhi]

And just to be clear, I don't take pleasure in arguing with anyone. I prefer to be agreeable believe it or not.

I think the boat has sailed on that one Shirley. @Kafir-kun is someone that is very knowledgable on the ME, so maybe take a cue from him on whether your opening salvo was incorrect vis a vis my post being "moronic" or not.

I mean I'll bet he may not agree 100% and be able to correct me on some things, but if he tells me I'm a Moran here, I'll concede that you are just a nice guy who had to step out of character to right an injustice on the internet.

Otherwise I am going to have to go with e-dickhead at least in this thread.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Well his better post was basically calling out Islam for being FOS and giving Israel a pass.

That's fair, but I don't expect everyone to have intelligent, moral perspectives on things. At least he spelled out his specific objections and explained his thinking. That's what this place is all about, IMO.

 

[Gandhi]

That's fair, but I don't expect everyone to have intelligent, moral perspectives on things. At least he spelled out his specific objections and explained his thinking. That's what this place is all about, IMO.

Yeah that's true

If that post was his first one, minus the dismissive BS, there would be enough to have a good back and forth.

To be honest there already has been one. Through all the junk between us both I could list like maybe 3 - 5 good questions that are worth debating. I doubt he will admit that though .

 

[weed]

I think the boat has sailed on that one Shirley.

seriously. dude is straight disingenuous to the bone. he doesn't know how to remove himself (aka his petty emotions) from an argument. he may not like "arguing" with anyone but he sure as hell doesn't stop himself from doing so, let alone from instigating bullshit.

 

[Seraldo Babalu]

Another Jew fetishist thread, cool.

 

[Jack V Savage]

LOL Dershowitz changed my life was a sure sign of a work....

It would have been funnier if he'd said, "I heard Bob Dylan's 'Neighborhood Bully,' and it changed my heart."

 

[dissolved]

Your first paragraph starts with a faulty premise that you even acknowledge with an "I bet you think X". Which may keep you out of complete strawman country but it's basically the same thing. I never said "no hate ttowards Israel or the west", I said Muslims that had not been radicalized so that existing negative feelings towards Israel had not yet been converted into complete hate for the west. The whole point of the video was to counter that trend and you sit here arguing with me about whether these people exist and what their exact characteristics are. Yes it could be aimed at people that are already radical, but the best time to do that is prior to the radicalization occurring. And any faults with the video reaching those not yet radicalized is going to be even more exaggerated with those already radicalized.

It's the definition of a non constructive argument, it sounds like you don't like the video either because you think all muslims are born with a bomb strapped to their chest hating Israel and the west on equal measure right at the outset. Ok that is probabaly a straw man on my part, the reality is you just don't like me using the word "moderate" rather than "not yet converted to devoted radical, naive, etc". Which is a rather silly counter to my point.

The fact that you can't see the areas where we might even have common ground (on the use of Israel as a propaganda a piece to radicalize Muslims against the west) just confirms JVS' characterization of your posts as rude and a little slow.

Yeah a paragraph declaring yourself the winner, give yourself a cookie. This never was a conversation, this was condescending and dismissive retort that when others called you out on as completely unconstructive, you then backpeddled into a wall of diarrhea text that combined an intentional misrepresenting of my position with random rantings about the UN and the media. So LOL, really, at your threats to end this quick, you are just trying to score points, so feel free to tap out at any time as I would expect we have already entered into wall of text territory that nobody gives a shit about.

Again you are white washing Israel's issues and parsing words to try and score points rather than address anything of substance. The characterization of Israel as a democracy with a few flaws is the whole problem with the video. Western democracies don't occupy large sections of land where their inhabitants don't have a vote. You have not addressed the contradictions that Israel faces as a democracy, which is where the video is s huge fail, and that is telling.

Why waste my time watching? Because the video came across to me as a totally contrived piece of propaganda that would not be an effective communication tool, I should not have watched it in the first place? Is that really the kind of circle jerk reasoning you are going with?

And again......bear with me, you are being a absolute fucking MORAN, when you argue with me over the part of the video that I said had merit, in my first post. Yes Israel is a propaganda tool in the ME. Yes it is used as a gateway for further radicalization.

No I don't expect you to make any effort to understand my position, that would require acknowledging that we agree in some places, and have substantive disagreements in others, and that in turn would require you to retract your dickish BS. So I don't expect that to happen.

Again you ask what we are doing conversing if I don't take your view on things. What should be an interesting and arguable question is again reduced to a dismissive one liner where the conclusion and support are dropped like some universial truth. Dude you simply are sucking at Sherdog here.

The fact that a holy text is in way any being translated into massive amounts of sectarian based violence on the ground both within and external to Islam has a wide range of historical / cultural / blah blah blah reasons. You want to set up some sort of hierarchy of importance based on a book because you have a narrative, fine.

But again if you think anyone who wants to step out of that very limited narrative is not worth conversing with then fine, fuck off already and I'll continue my conversation with the adults in the room that I was having before you poked your rude slow nose in.

So really, I'm going to end this conversation.

The video was a testimonial highlighting Jew-hate as bred by Islam. My take, is this is absolutely normative.

Cheers!

 

[dissolved]

seriously. dude is straight disingenuous to the bone. he doesn't know how to remove himself (aka his petty emotions) from an argument. he may not like "arguing" with anyone but he sure as hell doesn't stop himself from doing so, let alone from instigating bullshit.

"disingenuous to the bone." Thanks for weighing in.

As if it's uncommon for people's emotions to get involved in the War Room.

 

[Gandhi]

So really, I'm going to end this conversation.

The video was a testimonial highlighting Jew-hate as bred by Islam. My take, is this is absolutely normative.

Cheers!

Again It never was a conversation as you self declared victory in your first response to me.

But sure and we can leave out why it's [israel as propaganda piece] is effective and how best to counteract it for another day, as we are not getting anywhere on these questions. And we can agree to disagree on if these questions are even meaningful.

Cheers back !!!!!

 

[weed]

"disingenuous to the bone." Thanks for weighing in.

As if it's uncommon for people's emotions to get involved in the War Room.

you're quite welcome.

yes, it's fine to get emotional, but you let yours get to you literally always. you don't know how to argue effectively (as @Gandhi pointed out) & resort to the ol' "I disagree with you so you're a moron" routine.

I've told you this before: you need to keep your bitterness to yourself & not shit on others, unless of course they shit on you first.

 

[dissolved]

you're quite welcome.

yes, it's fine to get emotional, but you let yours get to you literally always. you don't know how to argue effectively (as @Gandhi pointed out) & resort to the ol' "I disagree with you so you're a moron" routine.

I've told you this before: you need to keep your bitterness to yourself & not shit on others, unless of course they shit on you first.

Welp, I saw the strain of posts that brought me into disagreement with Gandhi from a different perspective. And it culminated in this thread.

But thanks for the advice anyway.

 

[xcvbn]

 

[xcvbn]

I think this testimonial is interesting and from what I've seen an all too common story.

Should be titled:
Muslims: Born and Bred to Hate The West

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Yes but not every culture has a uncontrolable (and often supported) extremist fringe that kills the "non-believers".

Who cares what is "written", "unwritten", "spoken"??

Moslems have been killing killing each other mostly in modern times than they have jews. Plus the death tolls of all the conflicts between jews in Israel, and moslem palestinians is mostly palestinians by a long shot. I am even pretty sure its more than the number of Jews killed anywhere by moslems in recent times.

 

[evansusmc2]

Moslems have been killing killing each other mostly in modern times than they have jews. Plus the death tolls of all the conflicts between jews in Israel, and moslem palestinians is mostly palestinians by a long shot. I am even pretty sure its more than the number of Jews killed anywhere by moslems in recent times.

Muslims have been killing each other before the US exsisted. Not sure what your definition of "modern times" is.

They have not killed as many jews because Arabs suck at all spectrums of combat. See: 1967 and 1973 wars.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Muslims have been killing each other before the US exsisted. Not sure what your definition of "modern times" is.

They have not killed as many jews because Arabs suck at all spectrums of combat. See: 1967 and 1973 wars.

Everybody has been killing everybody since before the US started. Then the US started killing everyone. It is not by some divine right, putting the Israelis on the side of righteousness, that their nearby enemies are inferior at the moment,

 

[evansusmc2]

Everybody has been killing everybody since before the US started. Then the US started killing everyone. It is not by some divine right, putting the Israelis on the side of righteousness, that their nearby enemies are inferior at the moment,

I'll take that as admitting you were wrong about Arabs killing each other before this and that.

Their nearby enemies MADE themselves inferior by getting embarrassed by the Israelis in the 1967 and 1973 wars.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I'll take that as admitting you were wrong about Arabs killing each other before this and that.

Their nearby enemies MADE themselves inferior by getting embarrassed by the Israelis in the 1967 and 1973 wars.

I was stating they are mostly just killing each other currently. I did not say they never killed each other before or other people before.

edit, ok, I understand. You thought I am writing they have only started killing each other in modern times. I did not mean it like that. I just meant during these recent moslem spats in modern times, it has mostly been moslem on moslem kills.