Bodyfat% honest guess

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I agree wtih your estimation 20-24 %. Not fat but also not shreded, Pretty normal, good base to build on.
 
1rawdog said:
Dude you could surely, maybe not "easily" drop 25 lbs in the next 6 months if you bumped that up on the priority list. You would look sharp as hell, including your shoulders looking way better btw, and most likely perform better on fight night with a pretty easy water cut. Don't grow old and wake up one day wishing you had taken some shots like that when you were young and resilient.
I regret some stuff like that a lot and now I'm years past realistic goals in some areas, it blows.

"Take the shot. Pain don't hurt, chicks dig scars and GLORY LASTS FOREVER"
- paraphrased mashup by 1rawdog
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yeah man thanks I'm excited I got good explosiveness and punching power too once I bench 315 I'll send a video here and start cutting best I can
 
BroScienceTalkatWork said:
therein lies one of the dangers of steroids

you muscled your way down to a lower bodyfat percentage. But that’s still a ton of extra mass to carry

Them gear heads are always trying to get down to 10% for a reason. it’s 15% without the extra muscle
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I think i missed this post before. Caution is certainly warranted with AAS but on the upside having more muscle has some pretty tremendous positive effects on all kinds of health markers and longevity. Things like CV health, metabolic health, immunity etc and even mortality rates. If you read the literature you'll see numbers like 20 to 30% lower risk factors and 1.5 to 2x better outcomes.
With sensible use you can realize those type of gains while increasing your gainz.
Sensible I said ;)
 
godhatesacoward said:
ye I wanna fight at welterweight and im at 208 rn so I hope I don't have to cut too much weight
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What's the weight limit for welterweight in your competition? How much time do you have to make weight? How much between weigh-in and fight? Have you made water weight before?
That's not an easy cut in any case, even if you were experienced. I'd say you'd have to get down to 190, better yet 185 lbs by dieting, then you can probably cut water weight for the remaining pounds. However, if you never dehydrated before, there's a fair chance you'll be absolutely cooked if you need to cut to 170. If you can fight at 185 or so, I'd recommend that.
 
period said:
What's the weight limit for welterweight in your competition? How much time do you have to make weight? How much between weigh-in and fight? Have you made water weight before?
That's not an easy cut in any case, even if you were experienced. I'd say you'd have to get down to 190, better yet 185 lbs by dieting, then you can probably cut water weight for the remaining pounds. However, if you never dehydrated before, there's a fair chance you'll be absolutely cooked if you need to cut to 170. If you can fight at 185 or so, I'd recommend that.
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On this note what do you think about practicing water cuts to get a feel for it ? For this fella say he wants to fight at 170 in 6-8 months. He loses 15 lbs in the next 4 months so weighs roughly 195. I wonder if there would be a benefit to do a more minor practice run say shooting for a water cut of 10 so down to 185 and then recover back to 195? The goal being to lose 10lbs more before the fight then water cut 185-170 and back to 185?

Value in that as a learning exercise?

Also how do you feel about diuretics, natural or not or any other "tricks" like sauna etc for a lower level ammy fight?
 
1rawdog said:
On this note what do you think about practicing water cuts to get a feel for it ? For this fella say he wants to fight at 170 in 6-8 months. He loses 15 lbs in the next 4 months so weighs roughly 195. I wonder if there would be a benefit to do a more minor practice run say shooting for a water cut of 10 so down to 185 and then recover back to 195? The goal being to lose 10lbs more before the fight then water cut 185-170 and back to 185?

Value in that as a learning exercise?

Also how do you feel about diuretics, natural or not or any other "tricks" like sauna etc for a lower level ammy fight?
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A "practice cut" may be a good idea if someone doesn't know how they will react to dehydration, although it can disrupt the training process to some extent, since it's draining. Honestly, I'd say cutting from 208 to 170 if one has never cut before is probably too much. Cutting from 208 to 185 is already not the easiest thing in the world, whether it's through diet or diet + water cut. There are just too many variables if one doesn't know how the individual body will react to long, steady diet, or a short, extreme diet, plus dehydration.

Diuretics in the traditional sense (more urine excretion) I never used, however, with the weight cutting method I preferred, I would sometimes start the water cut with a light laxtive to make sure my bowels were empty - and seeing that I ate only 200-250 grams of food each day during the water cut, which was almost completely digestible, they would stay empty until the scale.
Sauna vs. exercise in a sweat suit and / or hot baths is a question of preference. Me, I usually felt a lot more miserable in the sauna, because all I could do there was sit still and suffer. On the other hand, I could burn off nervour energy through exercise, then continue sweating in a hot bath while tired, and then refresh with a cool shower afterwards - more agreeable to my peronality and training preferences. In any case, it is advisable to use a sauna or hot baths frequently throughout the year to get used to them if one chooses to use them for weight cutting. In general, it seemed to me that the guys on low-carb diets tended to prefer saunas, while the guys exercising in sweatsuits would swear on surviving on chocolate, ice cream or sodas. Either way, you want to avoid complete depletion of the carb stores. However, plese bear in mind that all my cuts and almost all the cuts I witnessed were with weigh-ins 60-90 min before the matches - you don't have time to effectively load carb stores in that window.
 
period said:
If you want to bench 315, sure. If you want to fight at welterweight any time soon, that's about the last thing I would currently worry about.
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I mean I just started training mma I won't have to make welterweight for awhile tbh
 
godhatesacoward said:
I mean I just started training mma I won't have to make welterweight for awhile tbh
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Why welterweight then? Does your coach say so? You probably haven't even developed a personal style yet, so it's hard to say if welterweight will suit you. In general, the middle weight classes are the toughest to dominate - many more good competitors than both light and heavy on average. As a heavyweight, you can get away with sub-average speed, stamina, aggressiveness or technical repertoire - as a middle- or welterweight, you typically can't.
 
period said:
A "practice cut" may be a good idea if someone doesn't know how they will react to dehydration, although it can disrupt the training process to some extent, since it's draining. Honestly, I'd say cutting from 208 to 170 if one has never cut before is probably too much. Cutting from 208 to 185 is already not the easiest thing in the world, whether it's through diet or diet + water cut. There are just too many variables if one doesn't know how the individual body will react to long, steady diet, or a short, extreme diet, plus dehydration.

Diuretics in the traditional sense (more urine excretion) I never used, however, with the weight cutting method I preferred, I would sometimes start the water cut with a light laxtive to make sure my bowels were empty - and seeing that I ate only 200-250 grams of food each day during the water cut, which was almost completely digestible, they would stay empty until the scale.
Sauna vs. exercise in a sweat suit and / or hot baths is a question of preference. Me, I usually felt a lot more miserable in the sauna, because all I could do there was sit still and suffer. On the other hand, I could burn off nervour energy through exercise, then continue sweating in a hot bath while tired, and then refresh with a cool shower afterwards - more agreeable to my peronality and training preferences. In any case, it is advisable to use a sauna or hot baths frequently throughout the year to get used to them if one chooses to use them for weight cutting. In general, it seemed to me that the guys on low-carb diets tended to prefer saunas, while the guys exercising in sweatsuits would swear on surviving on chocolate, ice cream or sodas. Either way, you want to avoid complete depletion of the carb stores. However, plese bear in mind that all my cuts and almost all the cuts I witnessed were with weigh-ins 60-90 min before the matches - you don't have time to effectively load carb stores in that window.
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great post, I was hoping to prompt a little seminar type response like this from you for the OP.
I've never done a water cut to make weight for a fight or bodybuilding or anything else. Not a real one anyways. Around 40 years ago a did part of one along with a guy I trained (lifting and nutrition) who was having his first kickboxing fight. Moral support and for the experience. There was not a lot of good coaching in our area at the time so he had no one else to help him figure it out. I really only knew how bodybuilders approached a cut so the adjustments we made were kind of educated guesses. In 36 hrs he cut 15 lbs , 210 -205 and I did 18, 228-210. I neither of us enjoyed it, i got a massive headache. He had to fight 3 hrs later, I felt small, weak and like I was gonna die slamming gatorade, whey and tylenol in the stands lol. Couldn't imagine fighting.

Again , great post should give @godhatesacoward somethings to think about for a start.
 
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Some really good discussion here.

I never thought about a practice cut. The practice is so brutal that I only did it when I had to.

In retrospect, if someone would have advised me to cut 80% of the weight I intended, then rehydrate for 16-24hrs and go do an insane training session it would have helped.

I think I would have had a more realistic understanding of the strength and endurance loss regardless of dehydration from a weight cut.

:meow:
 
when i felt really bad about being fat a long time ago one time I got inside a really hot bath like I saw chris cyborg do and cut some water weight to make me feel better (and I was obviously not in a good frame of mind here) so that's the closest thing to experiencing water weight I've done so far
 
period said:
Why welterweight then? Does your coach say so? You probably haven't even developed a personal style yet, so it's hard to say if welterweight will suit you. In general, the middle weight classes are the toughest to dominate - many more good competitors than both light and heavy on average. As a heavyweight, you can get away with sub-average speed, stamina, aggressiveness or technical repertoire - as a middle- or welterweight, you typically can't.
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dude I'm 5'11 I know DC did it but I think welterweight-middleweight is reasonable lol
 
godhatesacoward said:
dude I'm 5'11 I know DC did it but I think welterweight-middleweight is reasonable lol
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Middleweight is more realistic imho. If you can get to 185 lbs without cutting water, then you can think about welterweight.
In either case, improving body composition would be the first order of business. In general, when moving down 20+ lbs, I wouldn't focus on lifting, but on conditioning for a while. Mat train as much as possible, add as much extra conditioning as you can handle. If you feel bad about not lifting, add in a few barbell complexes. See how low you can go down without cutting water. If you can't get lower than 190 lbs, you likely won't be able to make welterweight, even with weigh-ins the day before - which amateur events usually don't have.
For starters, I wouldn't recommend cutting more than 10 lbs of waterweight, better 5 to be save.
 
I'll add to @periods last posts. I never went far as a competitive fighter (streetchamp, uberbouncer lol) bodybuilding, S&C, general health is my lane.
i'm sure everybody who knows me is sick of hearing this but it ALWAYS come back to goals and priorities.
Why am I bringing that up here? Being in an environment of he-men can alter your POV about what is normal or well beyond. You might think 315 is a big deal, I might think it's a warmup weight but the fact is the huge majority of men on the planet will never bench close to that. We have just normalized it in our world.
IMO if you are close to that and competitive mma goals are among your top priorities you have to ask yourself if your time is best spent on that. I think you are right around "about strong enough". Once you have critical strength what you can never have enough of is cardio and skillz.
I'm on more than one forum but I think it was here that i recently posted about a similar experience with a hockey player and deadlift. He eventually did very well at both, I think you can hit the bench goal in good time even if it moves down a notch on your list for a while.

PS - don't get me wrong, hitting 315 is a great goal I still remember it as one of my most satisfying moments. It's part of what I love about lifting, no matter what happens after you always own those benchmarks, nobody can take it away.
 
This may be extreme but you can also explore hopping on semaglutide/tirzapatide/etc and see how much weight you can drop over several years. You can try smaller doses at first and if you don't have any notable side effects you can raise the dose to the upper limits if needed.

I am 5'11.5 and I weighed around 140lb in high school. I am 230 lb now and was 220lb for most of my adult life over the last 25 years. Your body adjusts to the demands you impose on it over time. There are no miracles but slow results over an extended time whether weight loss or strength/muscle(or any other athletic attributes/variables) gains are more than possible. I would avoid limiting beliefs if possible. You can push yourself and eventually the body will tell you what is possible and what is just unrealistic.

I agree that focusing on conditioning and skills training should be priorities. If you want to do some calisthenics or light barbell/DB/KB complexes/circuits to build some relative strength/power/strength endurance/etc that may be doable as you're shedding weight.
 
Lower than mine but still high. I am close to 30% bodyfat right now. I am a fat fuck.

You are between 20 and 25 percent.
 
sequel pic not a huge visual change but im about 10 pounds down
 

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