Blind Debate: Daniel Cormier is the greatest heavyweight of all time

Fedor
Nog
Werdum
Crocop
Stipe
JDS
Then we can talk about reem being above DC or not.
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Yes, I understand your point. I reject it. I'm not interested in how Cormier would have developed under the training techniques of 2002, though it might make an interesting thread. I am interested in considering hypothetically how his actual skillset would match up with Nog's actual skillset. You are adding another layer of conjecture that isn't particularly useful imo.
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quite the opposite.
if you want to compare both, you can't simply take the era NOW against the era of 2 decades ago.
It is the same with almost every sport. It evolves.

Look at the NBA.
Do you think LeBron would beat the scoring record if defense was as rough as during Jordan's era?
Hell no!
 
The XL said:
Yeah, beating one trick pony gatekeepers like Coleman and Randleman is so amazing. Please.
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That is the part you fail to see...
if DC moved to MMA at that time, he would be exactly like that... a one trick pony.
 
I think if he beats Brock and Stipe again he is. He'd tie the Heavyweight title defense record and be undefeated at HW.
 
Shaddows said:
Do you think LeBron would beat the scoring record if defense was as rough as during Jordan's era?
Hell no!
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Yes, I do. He's a big, physically strong dude. He can take it. Don't let his flopping fool you. He's a tough guy.
 
Mixfight said:
Couldnt smash Roy Nelson or Frank Mir or a 2 days notice 40 year old Silva with ease but he will smash prime Fedor and Nog with ease???

Lmaoo UFC geeks today are unbelievable
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DC beat them all pretty effortlessly, he didnt lose a round to any of those guys.

Infact hes never lost a round at HW.

Never lost a round means hes walked through all his opponents
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Yes, I do. He's a big, physically strong dude. He can take it. Don't let his flopping fool you. He's a tough guy.
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he is tough, but he is not used to the physical game of that era.
His points would obvious suffer.

taje Jordan and put him on our current era, and he would probably double his points.
 
milenss said:
HairySimpleBallpython-size_restricted.gif
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I remember watching this as a kid lol
 
Mixfight said:
Couldnt smash Roy Nelson or Frank Mir or a 2 days notice 40 year old Silva with ease but he will smash prime Fedor and Nog with ease???

Lmaoo UFC geeks today are unbelievable
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He sure smashed Dan Henderson and Bigfoot Silva though. He also didn't get put on queer street by the likes of a Fujita or nearly Americana'd by Mark Hunt(LOL)
 
Big Nog is so overrated lol, same goes for Fedor.
 
Fedor and Cormier are both awesome. If Cormier was fighting in the generation Fedor was, he might have been up there with Fedor or they could have had some crazy wars. But they are different generations.

By the time Cormier was coming up and becoming what he is now, Fedor was already on the down slide. But during his run he was unbelievable. He had an 'undefeatable' aura, that nobody has yet matched, closest would be Jones.

Cormier just doesn't have the resume of wins to be classed as best though. Still one of the best fighters of all time, but he's split between LHW and HW.

Peak-theoretical best though, he's up there with Fedor IMO.

In terms of peak-theoretical best heavyweights, you've probably got 5-7 guys that stand out. Prime Fedor (2001-2006), Cormier (2015-2018), Nog (2000-2004), Mirko (2003-2006), Cain (2010-2013), JDS (2009-2011), and Werdum (2011-2015)

On resume of wins, Fedor is #1 clearly and Nog is probably #2, from there its a toss up. Cain doesn't have the resume but is arguably peak #1 or #2 that's why it gets confusing. Cormier could be put in that argument too.

I still think, particularly in the Pride ring with the more dangerous and balanced rules, Fedor would beat any of them in his prime. In the cage, its a very different game, MMA has evolved (some would say devolved) to fighting Unified now, so its different and comparisons are becoming more and more difficult to make. My guess is Prime Fedor would not have adapted to current MMA rules and would lose our get outpointed by fighters used to fighting and nuanced strategy in that environment like Cormier is now.

Fedor and Cormier have fought 4 common fighters, but all have been on the side towards Comiers prime years, rather than Fedor's

Henderson - (post-TRT) W (Cormier D) - (full TRT) L (Fedor KO)
Bigfoot - W (Cormier KO) - L (Fedor KO) (both were full TRT-Bigfoot) this was probably the clear end of Fedor's prime
Mir - W (Cormier D) - W (Fedor KO)
Monson - W (Cormier D) - W (Fedor D) (Fedor's was more dominant)

I also see DC struggling with some of Fedor's opponents in the pride environment, particularly Mirko and Nog, even guys like Randleman and Arlovski would be dangerous for DC. On the flip side, Jones, Stipe and Rumble could be dangerous for Prime Fedor, particularly so in the cage

Fedor definitely has the edge on overall resume, Cormier has the edge on common opponents, a peak-head to head match up is probably split with Fedor winning in Pride and DC winning in the cage

Just how see it
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
One could make an argument that peak DC beats any other peak HW in history. That's perfectly reasonable, even if others don't exactly agree. A reasonable and informed fan could believe it.

By resume, not even remotely close.
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I wouldn't say "not even remotely close" by resume. Imo if he won 3 or so more fights at HW he'd be in the conversation.

He already beat:
Mir
Nelson
Stipe
Lewis
Barnett
Bigfoot (TRT)
Sao Paleli (a bit of a stretch)
Jeff Monson (a bit of a stretch)

15-0 at HW

Compare that to Cain:
JDS 2X
Bigfoot 2X (TRT)
Kongo
Lesnar
Big Nog (out of prime)
Ben Rothwell
Travis Browne

14-3 at HW
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Fedor beat him twice though and beat better opponents all around, was a better champ, etc. Again, no disrespect to Nog, but for most of his career he was not top dog in his own org.
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"Nog was not top dog in his own org..."

Even in Rings then...Interesting... Ya sure about this one?
 
gono btw said:
"Nog was not top dog in his own org..."

Even in Rings then...Interesting... Ya sure about this one?
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Nah, I was talking about Pride, the argument is about the rationale between ranking Nog above Fedor. I just don't get it.
 
I would say without a doubt he's the best heavyweight of all time, but he might not be the greatest because he spent half his career at light-heavyweight.

Part of me wants to say that fedor was greater because he had so many wins at heavyweight but the other part of me says who the fuck did he actually beat. I think it could be argued the DC has already beat more high-quality Fighters then Fedor did in his career simply because he didn't fight too many cans really.
 
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