Black Holes and Interstellar Travel

[gspieler]

Have you ever considered implementing punctuation into what you write?

It's a list, smart guy. It reads better in non-paragraph form. Or if you're claim is that each item should be numbered, well, then perhaps you should get a life, and stop practicing pseudo-intellectual, grammar-nazism on the Internet.

 

[AshiharaFan]

:icon_lol:



And think about this: if you flew just a little too close to a black hole, it might seem like you flew by it at a normal rate of speed. But if you did get too close, after you pass it you might realize decades had passed for everyone not on your ship.

Maybe you flew a lil too close to the black hole, just barely skimming the edge of one, and when you get past it a few minutes later.... everybody you've ever known back on Earth has been dead and gone for decades!

Damn, that sucks!! If you could see everybody back on earth while your at the edge of the black hole, you would see thousands of whole generations be born and die in the span of like 5 seconds. But if they could see you as you get close to that black hole you would start to look like Reed Richards to them as you get sucked in and spaghettified.

 

[VroomyJeeps]

First off, as far as black holes are concerned, they would not stop other advanced beings from coming here. The extreme gravity of the super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy would only effect them if they traversed near the event horizon, which is the point where the gravity becomes so strong not even light can escape. For example when we send rockets to the moon they are not sucked in to the black hole, it is much too far away to have an effect on our ships. Beings would have no problem coming here if they possessed the technology to do so.

Nobody knows exactly what is inside a black hole. Some theorize that there is what is called a white hole on the other end. A white hole is the opposite of a black hole, which spews matter out much like a black hole pulls matter in, possibly to another universe or distant part of our universe. However, white holes have never been observed.

The problem with entering a black hole is that the massive gravitational pull from the event horizon would pull any spaceship we have today and stretch it out like a piece of spaghetti. This is called spaghettification. The massive change in gravity at the event horizon would stretch out and destroy anything that tries to enter it (theoretically).

Given the size of the universe there is zero doubt that many other advanced civilizations exist within the universe.

As far as advanced alien beings are concerned, i personally believe based on researching the subject that they have already been observing us for a long time. My belief is that they observe us but for some reason they cannot openly make contact. Why is the question and i do not know. Perhaps they are part of some galactic united nations which prohibits interference with developing civilizations. That is the big myself though.

The issue of the size of the universe and not being able to accelerate past light speed is likely not an issue for any highly advanced civilization. We believe it is not possible, with our extremely limited understanding of science and technology.

Remember that we humans are only just over 100 years in to any real meaningful technology. To think we have all the answers and to say positively that light speed cannot be surpassed is naive and ignorant.

Plus we know that spacetime can be manipulated and bent. Perhaps faster than light travel is not needed if you can fold Spacetime and bring the end destination to you.

Its just a matter of time before we are in open communication with advanced beings. It's inevitable.

With the current rate of technological development based on moores law (which is basically the doubling of computer power every 2 years) and only set to increase, its just a matter of time (within 200 years) that we will be finding life on other planets.

Most likely we will be sending out unmanned space drones that explore the universe for us and send back data.

Soon the advanced beings will be forced to have open contact with us because we will start finding them. They may view us as a threat given our violent history, and they would certainly be interested in keeping tabs on our propulsion systems and weapons capabilities.

I feel like we are on the cusp of the Golden age. Soon we will have the technology to cure cancer and almost any sickness. We will have unlimited clean energy, and possibly life extension technology. All possible within the next 200 years.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

You can't see them but they omit a lot of radiation. Any craft advanced enough for interstellar travel would have avoinics to detect them. Also the ratio between free space and black holes is immense. It's like saying the the northern hemisphere couldn't find the south due to sudden sink holes.

The question of discovery lays within the physics of the impossible; or rather the perceived impossible. Unless an advanced being has been able to crack FTSL abilities or quantum entanglement / tunneling, the distance remains too vast to really comprehend. We would also need technology capable of dealing surviving through bow shocks and presumably communication technology that could do the same.

Side note, Hawking announced few months ago that he solved the black hole paradox. He is releasing a paper on it soon. If anyone has been following the 30+ year battle he's been having with Susskind and Hooft - this might be the final shot in that "war".

 

[ralphc1]

The holes themselves should not be super massive but taut and tight.

Maybe after you get done with them.

 

[ralphc1]

Our so-called modern beliefs about science are based on what scientists have told us and/or figured out from the last 100 years or so.

Things that we take for granted today were thought to be impossible very recently.

Think about our science in another hundred years. You can't, and neither can the smartest person in the world today.

Now try to think about a world that has been technologically aware for thousands or hundreds of thousands of years with different natural resources and possibly bigger brains than anyone on earth.

We live in a universe so big and so old, that there might as well be infinite possibilities. We aren't really capable of thinking in the infinite, as much as super smart mathematicians would love to have you believe.

It's impossible for anyone living today to have any idea what is and isn't possible through technology or otherwise.

I don't doubt we got some stuff right. But I know for a fact that we don't have close to everything right.

The knowledge we have has been gathered over thousands of years.

What are these things that were thought impossible?
Flight? Leonardo Da Vinci was working on it 500 years ago.
Rockets? The Chinese were using them over 700 years ago.
Computers? The Sumerians were using a type of computer 4000 years ago and automated weaving machines used the technology almost 200 years ago.
Cell phones? They're just another form of radio which has been around for over 100 years.
Atomic power is the only relatively new technology and is capable of unleashing the most power as it is the type of power that the stars produce. We understand how atoms combine to produce elements and we have made several.

What many refer to as modern technology is a combination of thousands of years of learning to understand nature and how to make more efficient use of it to build smaller versions of powerplants, batteries and electrical circuits.

To travel faster takes more power. Light exists as wave energy and it is unlikely that matter can attain that speed without an infinite amount of energy.

We want to be able to travel to distant stars but the energy required is so great that we have to resort to science fiction to invent ways to produce it.

Others invented ways to warp space instead as if that would require less energy.

I lived through the beginning of the space programs and after the landing on the moon, it was fully expected that men would be on Mars by 1980. The Viking missions showed that there were many problems to solve before a manned mission could be successful.

We have to be able to sustain a fully closed environmental system and protect from the cosmic rays because there isn't a strong magnetic field like the Earth has.

 

[andnowweknow]

Our so-called modern beliefs about science are based on what scientists have told us and/or figured out from the last 100 years or so.

Things that we take for granted today were thought to be impossible very recently.

Think about our science in another hundred years. You can't, and neither can the smartest person in the world today.

Now try to think about a world that has been technologically aware for thousands or hundreds of thousands of years with different natural resources and possibly bigger brains than anyone on earth.

We live in a universe so big and so old, that there might as well be infinite possibilities. We aren't really capable of thinking in the infinite, as much as super smart mathematicians would love to have you believe.

It's impossible for anyone living today to have any idea what is and isn't possible through technology or otherwise.

I don't doubt we got some stuff right. But I know for a fact that we don't have close to everything right.

two of the more salient points you can make about science today.

 

[andnowweknow]

I lived through the beginning of the space programs and after the landing on the moon, it was fully expected that men would be on Mars by 1980. The Viking missions showed that there were many problems to solve before a manned mission could be successful.

We have to be able to sustain a fully closed environmental system and protect from the cosmic rays because there isn't a strong magnetic field like the Earth has.

this is simply a matter of resource allocation and impetus, nothing more. We didn't put a man on Mars by 80 because we frankly didn't try.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

The center of our galaxy is a black hole so we're being sucked into one as we speak.

Do you know if we are being sucked in? I don't know the angular momentum but we could be slipping away slowly.

 

[PorkPiePusher]

Is that why once you go black you never go back?

Unless you're Hawking radiation.

 

[SweetDaddySiki]

A few points about black holes

1) Black holes don't suck you in per se. The black hole at the center of universe will never suck us in.

If our sun was converted to a black hole, the earth would continue along its exact same orbit. A black hole has the same gravity as the mass it contains. What happens is that once you go beyond a certain point the space time curvature gets so immense that all paths only lead further into the black hole. One of the consequences of this curvature is that spacetime is falling into the hole like a waterfall at speeds which exceed the speed of light. That is one reason why light cannot escape.

2) Not all blackholes will turn you into spaghetti right away. Supermassive black holes have less density than stellar sized black holes, which means that while the total gravity is greater, the tidal forces are less. An astronaut can theoretically cross through the event horizon of a supermassive blackhole safely and enter the hole. However, as they go deeper and deeper, the tidal forces will increase until gravity pulls them apart. With stellar sized black holes, the astronaut would have been pulled apart long before the event horizon.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

A few points about black holes

1) Black holes don't suck you in per se. The black hole at the center of universe will never suck us in.

If our sun was converted to a black hole, the earth would continue along its exact same orbit. A black hole has the same gravity as the mass it contains. What happens is that once you go beyond a certain point the space time curvature gets so immense that all paths only lead further into the black hole. One of the consequences of this curvature is that spacetime is falling into the hole like a waterfall at speeds which exceed the speed of light. That is one reason why light cannot escape.

2) Not all blackholes will turn you into spaghetti right away. Supermassive black holes have less density than stellar sized black holes, which means that while the total gravity is greater, the tidal forces are less. An astronaut can theoretically cross through the event horizon of a supermassive blackhole safely and enter the hole. However, as they go deeper and deeper, the tidal forces will increase until gravity pulls them apart. With stellar sized black holes, the astronaut would have been pulled apart long before the event horizon.

I don't think there is a black hole at the center of the universe. I don't think we even know where the center of the universe is. There is one in the center of most, if not all, galaxies.

 

[Luminaire]

Reason why we have never communicated with intelligent alien life: Insane fucking distances.

Really... I think we need to send a few crews of Astro-Archaeologists to Mars on a one-way trip... have them dig, and dig, and dig... and find some fossils. Then Alien life will be confirmed and we can say ok, clearly this shit isn't that rare.

 

[quatin]

Maybe there's aliens everywhere, but they don't care about Earth.

[YT]tykCWO-abUU[/YT]

 

[SweetDaddySiki]

I don't think there is a black hole at the center of the universe. I don't think we even know where the center of the universe is. There is one in the center of most, if not all, galaxies.

Oops, i meant to say Galaxy.:redface: There is a black hole in the center of the galaxy.

The universe has no center. The universe is limitless (but not infinite). That means any possible point of the universe is the center.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Other than distance, I think time is the other huge separation factor. There could be countless other civilizations out there but whose to say they are going to exist at the same time as us.

Exactly. This is so overlooked.

For example, maybe there was a super intelligent civilization that existed for 2 million years. But that window was 30-32 million years ago so we never knew about it.

 

[Gene Tunney]

Do you know if we are being sucked in? I don't know the angular momentum but we could be slipping away slowly.

We are being pulled toward The Great Attractor at a high velocity, or the Shapley Supercluster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Attractor

 

[AshiharaFan]

Other than distance, I think time is the other huge separation factor. There could be countless other civilizations out there but whose to say they are going to exist at the same time as us.

Exactly. This is so overlooked.

For example, maybe there was a super intelligent civilization that existed for 2 million years. But that window was 30-32 million years ago so we never knew about it.

I agree, this is an often overlooked observation and sounds very, very likely. I'm sure there will come a time (and I think pretty damn soon) when human civilizations and human beings are no more.

 

[Andy Capp]

Exactly. This is so overlooked.

For example, maybe there was a super intelligent civilization that existed for 2 million years. But that window was 30-32 million years ago so we never knew about it.

Yes, I was going to make this point also. It has the effect of greatly increasing the distance we likely need to cover to contact another extant intelligent species. They'll be few and far between. On the other hand, it's also possible that any such life could be ahead of us by millions or 100's of millions of years. It would possibly make us pretty insignificant to them although I contend we'd at least be interesting enough to be experimented upon (shiver).

We are being pulled toward The Great Attractor at a high velocity, or the Shapley Supercluster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Attractor

Yes, there is a lot to clear up regarding the OP.

There are a lot of ways to detect the presence of a black hole without being able to detect it directly so I doubt that would be an obstacle to long distance space travel.

The main issue of the sheer amount of time, even at some kind of speed of light warp fantasy thing, has been mentioned and it's bang on. They're all likely to be really far away. The have to detect us and then start the trip. We've only been sending signals of various kinds out into the cosmos for about 75 years, give or take, so we're not likely to be noticed by any civilization more than 75 light years away from us.

I agree, this is an often overlooked observation and sounds very, very likely. I'm sure there will come a time (and I think pretty damn soon) when human civilizations and human beings are no more.

I disagree. As long as there's some eventual movement towards spreading out beyond Earth, I think we can vastly increase our long term chances for survival.

We have nothing to fear from the black hole at the center of the galaxy. The Sun is in orbit around it the same way we are in orbit around the Sun. A bigger issue is the Sun itself which will slowly get hotter until the surface of the Earth is no longer habitable, but we've got a billion or 2 years before that's an issue IIRC. [edit] There are lots of other things that are orders of magnitude more likely to end humanity, e.g. massive rocks, gamma ray bursts, that type of thing.

Finally, now that we have found the Higgs boson, it is only a matter of time imo before the whole mechanism of mass and therefore gravity is fully understood. This could lead to inertia-less travel and solve the distance problem a la Star Trek.

Of course, that is maybe several lifetimes away so I won't see any of it, but like I said, if we spread out instead of having all our eggs in one planetary basket, we'll have time to work it out.

Now, if we can do that, so can the other aforementioned civilizations. But they still have to notice us. We will need to get out of our local neighbourhood much more quickly than the speed of light can take us so we'll have to do it before we're likely to run into any other civilization.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I believe Aliens arrived on Earth 65 million years ago and found dinosaurs, and were like "holy fucking shit that planet is full of giant monsters" and then launched a meteor at us