BJJ Judo throws
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colinm
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at both bjj academies i've trained at, we've both drilled and done standing randori for about 20 minutes at the start of every class...not enough to get good quickly, but over time i've picked up a few things. i also drill my standup outside the academy tho.
B
blanko
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Jaxx said:
maybe he has a horrible way of sayint it.
stephensharp
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Now now, play nice...
Sambo is stereotypically played rougher, BJJists stereotypically have a better ground game, and Judoka stereotypically can throw the crap out of you or pin you in place... It doesn't mean there's not rough BJJers, Judo ne waza wizards and Samboists that look like they're doing balet with leg locks.
It's all the same thing with different competition rules and different TRADITIONAL training regimes. It can all change at any time.
Kosen Judo was the High School version of Judo and didn't come to be known by that name until 5 years after Maeda left the Kodokan. The reason it's often said that he taught "Kosen Judo" is that his seniors that returned to Japan while he stayed in the US and traveled abroad became the major names in that style. At that time (roughly 1915), Jigoro Kano began stearing away from the lengthy ne waza periods (a practice continued today, with pin times shortened from 30 seconds to 25, and more stand ups), but left Kosen to keep the style they were used to, which made it more like wrestling.
Maeda also did some catch wrestling and such, since he was traveling with those guys to make cash, and taught an amalgam of this stuff to his students in Brazil. Since Carlos (the eldest Gracie) was always winding up in street fights, and Maeda was staying at Gastao (the G clan's father), he began teaching Carlos how to defend himself and fight.
It stands to reason that with Maeda's style being what would become an offshoot of Judo within years of his leaving Japan to begin with, then mixing in some catch wrestling, and teaching it not as a sporting application of techniques but for street fighting purposes, all the groundwork would already be laid for BJJ and Judo to differentiate greatly. Couple that with the fact that, while all high level Judoka KNOW all the different throws, they only really become profficient at a few (drilling their favored technique, as anyoen does), and the short time Maeda spent with the Gracie family, and the fact that Carlos only had to learn enough to get to the ground, rather than having to know enough throws to catch someone equally trained off balance, the throwing aspect became completely a "means to an end" just as it was becoming the main focus in Japan.
These trends influenced competition rules, and thus training methodologies. Judoka are succeptible to leg attacks because they're not legal in competition, so they don't use them or defend them with much frequency, if at all. The same could be said for BJJ just a few years back, where foot attacks were uncommon and even frowned upon, and thus were a great weapon against BJJers with limited experience with them. A BJJer could take down a Judoka with a shot to a single, a Judoka could crank out hip throws, and a samboist might get both with a body lock, or stifle the hip throws with a leg entanglement (illegal in Judo). Then both the Judoka and the BJJer could choke out the samboist, since chokes are illegal, and they would thus be succeptible to it if they didn't train them often (and why would they if they're strictly learning the style for sport any more than a BJJer or Judoka would learn kickboxing?)
Sambo is stereotypically played rougher, BJJists stereotypically have a better ground game, and Judoka stereotypically can throw the crap out of you or pin you in place... It doesn't mean there's not rough BJJers, Judo ne waza wizards and Samboists that look like they're doing balet with leg locks.
It's all the same thing with different competition rules and different TRADITIONAL training regimes. It can all change at any time.
Kosen Judo was the High School version of Judo and didn't come to be known by that name until 5 years after Maeda left the Kodokan. The reason it's often said that he taught "Kosen Judo" is that his seniors that returned to Japan while he stayed in the US and traveled abroad became the major names in that style. At that time (roughly 1915), Jigoro Kano began stearing away from the lengthy ne waza periods (a practice continued today, with pin times shortened from 30 seconds to 25, and more stand ups), but left Kosen to keep the style they were used to, which made it more like wrestling.
Maeda also did some catch wrestling and such, since he was traveling with those guys to make cash, and taught an amalgam of this stuff to his students in Brazil. Since Carlos (the eldest Gracie) was always winding up in street fights, and Maeda was staying at Gastao (the G clan's father), he began teaching Carlos how to defend himself and fight.
It stands to reason that with Maeda's style being what would become an offshoot of Judo within years of his leaving Japan to begin with, then mixing in some catch wrestling, and teaching it not as a sporting application of techniques but for street fighting purposes, all the groundwork would already be laid for BJJ and Judo to differentiate greatly. Couple that with the fact that, while all high level Judoka KNOW all the different throws, they only really become profficient at a few (drilling their favored technique, as anyoen does), and the short time Maeda spent with the Gracie family, and the fact that Carlos only had to learn enough to get to the ground, rather than having to know enough throws to catch someone equally trained off balance, the throwing aspect became completely a "means to an end" just as it was becoming the main focus in Japan.
These trends influenced competition rules, and thus training methodologies. Judoka are succeptible to leg attacks because they're not legal in competition, so they don't use them or defend them with much frequency, if at all. The same could be said for BJJ just a few years back, where foot attacks were uncommon and even frowned upon, and thus were a great weapon against BJJers with limited experience with them. A BJJer could take down a Judoka with a shot to a single, a Judoka could crank out hip throws, and a samboist might get both with a body lock, or stifle the hip throws with a leg entanglement (illegal in Judo). Then both the Judoka and the BJJer could choke out the samboist, since chokes are illegal, and they would thus be succeptible to it if they didn't train them often (and why would they if they're strictly learning the style for sport any more than a BJJer or Judoka would learn kickboxing?)
