BJJ blackbelts in MMA

In the words of the venerable John Danaher, "You must understand, there are black belts, and then there are black belts."
 
Ed Herman is a black belt apparently and most of his losses are by sub.
 
a belt only covers 2 inches of your ass, and now everyones training a form of grappling so although they may not have been belted their training with people who are. What im getting at is that unless you have grappling tournaments behind your black belt your just one of the pack
 
1-Sport BJJ and MMA grapplinga re 2 different things.

2-A black belt only means you have the knowledge of a BB wich you can use to teach , doesnt mean you have the skill of a champion like Roger Gracie, for that you need other mental and physical skills, boxing trainers like Nacho Beristain and Freddy Roach were never boxing champions but I will never doubt their knowledge of the sport.

3-While BJJ usually the best sub grappling system for MMA is not the only one, there are a few people that dont train BJJ that are equally as skilled as a BB, especially applied to MMA where they can work all the arsenal in to the match.
 
armbarforhire said:
1-Sport BJJ and MMA grapplinga re 2 different things.

2-A black belt only means you have the knowledge of a BB wich you can use to teach , doesnt mean you have the skill of a champion like Roger Gracie, for that you need other mental and physical skills, boxing trainers like Nacho Beristain and Freddy Roach were never boxing champions but I will never doubt their knowledge of the sport.

3-While BJJ usually the best sub grappling system for MMA is not the only one, there are a few people that dont train BJJ that are equally as skilled as a BB, especially applied to MMA where they can work all the arsenal in to the match.
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Well put.
 
jagerbomber84 said:
You mean the same Vitor who nearly subbed the champ with an armbar? Just because he doesn't use it often doesn't mean his bjj isn't legit...leave him off your list. You don't have to be a black belt to apply bjj well in a fight, it's about finding the opportunities and taking them, Lauzon is a purple belt and is one of the best sub artists in the UFC.
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Also Arona while being one of the best grapplers of his time only had like 2 sub wina, just because a guy has losses by sub doesnt mean his skill is not legit, nor many wins by sub make him a outstanding grappler.
 
the382iceman said:
BJJ blackbelts in MMA? not to sound rude, but I think some fighters self-proclaim themselves as blackbelts in BJJ. Vitor getting submitted a few times to fighter who don't even have a belt rank in BJJ, wagnney fabiano is another, which fighters with BJJ blackbelts do you have bad BJJ in MMA?
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Vitor is a very legit blackbelt under Carlson Gracie.
 
look ill tell you right now you're not getting punched and kicked and elbowed and kneed during your black belt testing. Its like saying hey I can run fast as hell so I should be the best triathlete ever or hey I am great at the shot put so I'll win all decathalons.

BJJ in MMA is great if its straight grappling but there are too many intangibles. When you're hurt unless ur name is Mir or Nog theres a good chance for anyone to get subbed.
 
Fight Gone Bad said:
look ill tell you right now you're not getting punched and kicked and elbowed and kneed during your black belt testing. Its like saying hey I can run fast as hell so I should be the best triathlete ever or hey I am great at the shot put so I'll win all decathalons.

BJJ in MMA is great if its straight grappling but there are too many intangibles. When you're hurt unless ur name is Mir or Nog theres a good chance for anyone to get subbed.
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Great point. It's also very hard (I assume) to submit individuals without the benefit of a gi. All that sweat, especially in the later rounds, would make it hard to sink in some chokes.

I think that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has grown way too much, way too quickly since its glory days of Royce Gracie choking out grizzly bears in the Octagon. A lot of people have gotten black belts far too quickly and to an extent, BJJ has been mystified in the consciousness of the MMA community. While a very effective grappling art, once one knows how to defend against common BJJ techniques, it takes the proper situation and a skilled and adaptable BJJ wizard to make something happen.

I think gone are the days of MMA fighters who are ignorant of submission wrestling or BJJ. It's a bread-and-butter discipline now and this means that even black belts are going to have trouble doing their magic.
 
Oh come on, this isn't that complicated.

I have trained no BJJ or wrestling at all, but you know what? I could stroll up behind a bjj blackbelt, sucker punch them with the biggest hit I can muster, and probably lock on a RNC and sub them while they were still reeling. (Not that I'm lame enough to ever do such a thing.)

That same bjj blackbelt would absolutely destroy me in a bjj or mma match, but the point is that anyone can get subbed by anyone when they're rocked/gassed/injured/whatever.
 
Also BJJ isnt about flashy subs. Most subs are pretty basic. You might see a fancy one every once in a while but its all about the setup. Our schools here dont really want you to fight until you are a high level blue or purple. The scary part is that most wrestlers who already know positioning in grappling can avoid most setups to subs or control their opponent to where BJJ level doesnt mean much.

How can you grab a leglock with no leg? How can you grab an armbar is im always positioned around it? And like another poster said sweat and gis also factor in.
 
Belts are meaningless in the end. Josh Barnett won the 2009 Brazillian No Gi Jiu-Jitsu championship, the 2010 Gracie nationals as well as submitting plenty of Sambo and Jiu-Jitsu guys along the way without a belt of any kind.
 
I feel like a black belt doesn't mean much anymore. Machida is supposedly a high level black belt yet looked like a fish out of water under Jones.
 
the382iceman said:
BJJ blackbelts in MMA? not to sound rude, but I think some fighters self-proclaim themselves as blackbelts in BJJ. Vitor getting submitted a few times to fighter who don't even have a belt rank in BJJ, wagnney fabiano is another, which fighters with BJJ blackbelts do you have bad BJJ in MMA?
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Vitor has been submitted only twice and both times after he got rocked. Have you ever gotten rocked and tried to do jiu-jitsu? its all autopilot. Remember how Royce was almost submitted by Matt Hughes? Would you say Royce sucks at BJJ? Bjj in MMA is totally different. At AKA a few years ago we started doing bjj with gloves and light strikes... This was a completely different game. In turn, Dave Camarillo left AKA. He was tired of catering bjj to mma with new students and constantly appeasing the fighters. He stopped selling out.
 
Take vitor of the list... Carlson Gracie at one point wanted to change Vitors last name o Gracie because he was so good at bjj. Only guy i can think of is GSP as much as j hate to admit it. I think he got his belt because of his stifling top control holding black belts down. He really should have been able to sub Hardy.
 
Not to critique Randy's grappling credentials, but his black belt test was kinda lame...
 
srw15 said:
Vitor has been submitted only twice and both times after he got rocked. Have you ever gotten rocked and tried to do jiu-jitsu? its all autopilot. Remember how Royce was almost submitted by Matt Hughes? Would you say Royce sucks at BJJ? Bjj in MMA is totally different. At AKA a few years ago we started doing bjj with gloves and light strikes... This was a completely different game. In turn, Dave Camarillo left AKA. He was tired of catering bjj to mma with new students and constantly appeasing the fighters. He stopped selling out.
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Royce is good, he didnt tap, but i could understand if someone is really rocked, but for a BB to grapple with a non BBJ fighter and get submitted by them proves his level of BBJ isnt as good as they claim, also GSP is a BB in BJJ, he had hardy in an armbar but not fully locked with the legs, all he was using was his arms and jock to do it, if you take away the jock he crushes his testicles, the armbar is one of the first submissions i've learned while taking BJJ and seeing how GSP is a BB in BJJ and how he did his was just bad, there is even footage of him attempting armbars and wondering why his opponents dont tap, his coaches had to tell him how to do it, but he is a BB in BJJ shouldn't he already know how? I just think some fighters just self-proclaim themselves as a BB in BJJ or they are given too easy.
 
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