BJ Penn Or Roy Jones Jr? Who is tarnishing their legacy the most?

thechoice2 said:
Roy isn't tarnishing his legacy because Boxing fans are smart enough to know that when a fighter loses well past their prime it doesn't reflect on how good they were during their prime. A lot of MMA fans are too new to combat sports to realize this so BJ is tarnishing his legacy more.
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Lets put RJJ in perspective. In his prime, he was unbelievable to watch. The man literally hardly ever got hit, was as fast as he was unpredictable. And hit extremely hard as well. I watched him stop a guy with a body shot. He had 1 punch ko power, along with blazing speed.

He beat both bernard hopkins and James toney, in their prime. That is a feat in itself. He beat one of, if not the best middleweight of all time. Hopkins. From what I remember, he beat him with one arm.. his other arm was injured. He beat an in his prime james toney. and toyed with him the entire fight. Not even remotely close.. neither fight was close... Then when he moved up in weight and beat ruiz, he looked incredible. beat him with frightening ease.

Then, moving back down in weight, something happened. He fought Tarver. A guy he would have ko'd like nothing in years past. All of a sudden, jones was looking slower, got hit more. Looked nothing like jones of past. I forget exactly how that fight went. It was either a draw or Jones won a disputed controversial decision. Then the rematch. Jones claimed he trained harder than ever and would embarrass tarver. But honestly, jones looked even worse. Tarver had him Psyched out. from tarver saying "what will your excuse be now roy" or something similar. Tarver proceeded to ko jones for the first time his career.
 
arrmike said:
BJ's legend has always been built around a couple of huge accomplishment, but finished off by the impressive imaginations of his huggers. Getting beaten soundly by fighters that aren't that much younger is not good for his image.
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I disagree with this. The huggers might try to claim he is literally the greatest of all time which is obviously not true, but then there are haters or new fans who try to downplay his very real and very impressive accomplishments.

Most experts and fighters would easily have BJ in their top 10 if not higher, so his legacy is quite strong in MMA.
 
Sonny Qc said:
was 48-1 (only loss by DQ)
champ at 160.168.175 +Heavyweight?

would be in the discussion for sure.

(agree, he ducked a few fights/fighter when he was champ)
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Top 5 p4p in his Era, but not even in an all time discussion.

The Ruiz win was fun, but it was novelty. Ruiz was hand picked. It really wasn't even a risky fight for Jones.
 
Legacy already went to shit with BJ, 16-10, didnt he also tested positive for something recently? His legacy is that he won the belt in two weight classes, but it feels more like he had the perfect matchup against Hughes, as GSP dominated him, and Rory just played with him, cant imagine what Wonderboy, Lawler, Condit or Woodley would do to him.
 
ChucksGlassJaw said:
Top 5 p4p in his Era, but not even in an all time discussion.

The Ruiz win was fun, but it was novelty. Ruiz was hand picked. It really wasn't even a risky fight for Jones.
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I was around, when jones was fighting in his prime. Jones would have destroyed just about any other fighter that ever lived. go watch any other fighter in history, in his weight class, and you will not find one fighter that had his speed, combined with power, combined with cardio, combined with not getting hit. I would have loved to see him fight a sugar ray robinson. Not p4p best. in his prime, he was recognized as #1...
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
Both guys should have retired years ago but continue to fight. Will BJ go the RJJ route and begin fighting literal no names after he gets thrashed by Lamas?
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If you retire.. Stay retired.....You did it for a reason.
 
bigconan said:
I was around, when jones was fighting in his prime. Jones would have destroyed just about any other fighter that ever lived. go watch any other fighter in history, in his weight class, and you will not find one fighter that had his speed, combined with power, combined with cardio, combined with not getting hit. I would have loved to see him fight a sugar ray robinson. Not p4p best. in his prime, he was recognized as #1...
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I'm 37 years old and have seen every RJJ fight up until 2012 (including Olympics). He was one of the most gifted fighters ever, but doesn't have the wins to be in the p4p discussion, without even considering his fall.
 
Sirwastealot said:
I disagree with this. The huggers might try to claim he is literally the greatest of all time which is obviously not true, but then there are haters or new fans who try to downplay his very real and very impressive accomplishments.

Most experts and fighters would easily have BJ in their top 10 if not higher, so his legacy is quite strong in MMA.
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BJ was a great fighter. Tons of talent, but not that many concrete accomplishments compared to the other fighters in the goat discussion.

If RJJ had retired a few times after Toney and Hopkins 1 and fought very infrequently, he would have a more similar to BJ. As it is, RJ outclassed numerous decent fighters for years. BJ is missing that consistency that is a hallmark of a p4p goat. We have to imagine it for him.
 
thechoice2 said:
Roy isn't tarnishing his legacy because Boxing fans are smart enough to know that when a fighter loses well past their prime it doesn't reflect on how good they were during their prime. A lot of MMA fans are too new to combat sports to realize this so BJ is tarnishing his legacy more.
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That's why I hate mma fans. Sugar Ray and Ali would be considered cans if they did what they did in MMA. And boxing fans were never like this even in the "early" years. People may have argued who was better, Louis or Ali. Boxing fans gave and give Peter Jackson as much credit as Jim Corbett. MMA is today where "modern" boxing was in 1915. No serious boxing fan discredited Joe Walcott in 1915. Boxing fans can hold two thoughts at the same time.
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
Do you think BJ would be looked at differently if he were fighting no name guys in Bellator but winning?
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Nick Diaz's whole career is based on this model. He was mediocre in the UFC, went and won titles against cans in the early WEC and in Strikeforce, and suddenly he's good enough to fight for the UFC belt.

Maybe if BJ spent the past 5 years fighting in Bellator he would be brought back to fight the UFC LW champ, and after losing that he'd get the WW Champ as well.
 
I don't think a guy tarnishes his legacy by hanging on too long. No matter what happens from here on it won't change what BJ has accomplished.

Even if he loses his next 20 fights he will still be a two division champion and a BJJ world champ
 
i dont know did RJJ got caught cheating? yeah....Bj Penn
 
arrmike said:
BJ was a great fighter. Tons of talent, but not that many concrete accomplishments compared to the other fighters in the goat discussion.

If RJJ had retired a few times after Toney and Hopkins 1 and fought very infrequently, he would have a more similar to BJ. As it is, RJ outclassed numerous decent fighters for years. BJ is missing that consistency that is a hallmark of a p4p goat. We have to imagine it for him.
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We do have to imagine the consistency, but we don't have to imagine all the times BJ took crazy risks and did things literally no other fighter has done in the sport. Those are a different kind of accomplishments but ones that will be remembered as long as the sport is alive.

You are judging BJ by one single criteria, but he is a one of a kind fighter and his career was more tremendous highs with big lows.

I won't argue if you say RJJ was more accomplished but in MMA BJ is not far behind.
 
Coolidge said:
Roy wins fights occasionally, so he's not tarnishing his as much.
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Occasionally? He's won 10 out of his last 11 fights, yea their cans but BJ hasn't won a fight since what Matt Hughes?
 
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