BJ Penn Jiu jItsu Case Study (content request)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by wordspeaker, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. wordspeaker

    wordspeaker Blue Belt

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    Hey guys.

    As most of us know, BJ Penn got his Black belt in world record time, and started immediately winning major competitions with it.

    His styles seems basic, efficient, effective and able to be replicated.

    This happened a bit before the mass filming of competitions, and before modern bjj scout type analysis was being released by the community.

    Ive studied what technique videos i've been able to find by the man, but has anyone broken down and analysed match footage. If not, is anyone anywhere interested in making one? It seems like a waste of his legacy for us to not all learn from it.
     
  2. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    In. I've always been a fan of his; I hope some hidden gems pop up here.
    He filmed a technique with Tinguinha within the last year, an over/under pass variation that you can see him use in his Worlds final match. The recent vid is nowhere to be found. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please sound off.
     
  3. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    There is the compilation of passes



    and the 5 part series that Jeff Joslin did, breaking down the pass



    Edit: Also be careful doing video analysis of Penn, especially if you use UFC footage it is likely that it will get taken down eventually.
     
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  4. fittycentguard

    fittycentguard Orange Belt

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    I think that leg positioning is what the Medes bros refer to as the Leg Weave. They normally don't go straight to the mount though, but rather, windshield wipe again to secure the leg drag.
     
  5. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    yeah that pass has about as many names as it does variations
     
  6. wordspeaker

    wordspeaker Blue Belt

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    This is great. I've mostly taken inspiration from his stack passing so far.

    Thanks guys. Keep it coming.
     
  7. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    We call it dope mount here. What exactly are the variations
     
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  8. Allan san

    Allan san Green Belt

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    Same here. I use dope mount whenever I find myself in a reverse leg drag. The position is about patience and pressure. Unlike MMA, we can't use punches to force movement from our opponent so I use a lot of shoulder and hip pressure to get them to flatten themselves out.
     
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  9. BajaMaliKnindza

    BajaMaliKnindza White Belt

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    Down here we call it a "smash pass"

    But ive also heard it called the "bj penn pass" and "dope mount", bjj scout also did a video or 2 on it under the Rodolfo Viera passing /weaves title..

    Its a very important passing sequence imo, very good way to deal with butterfly hooks and x guard type stuff
     
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  10. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    I call it the dope mount too, some people call it smash pass, leg weave, folding pass, side smash, twisting mount, leg mount, BJ Penn pass, Penn pass, TT Pass, Terere Pass, skip knee, some people also just lump it under the "leg drag" umbrella, I've heard it refered to as a switch leg drag at times too. I'm sure i'm also forgetting a bunch!

    The variations aren't major and usually change based on either the setup, grips, leg position and transition. Some variations will include submissions in them. The major variation is how you use the dope mount, some people use it as a transitional spot to probe for weaknesses and/or float to pass. Where as other people use the dope mount as a position in itself and will use it to isolate grips and smash their way into submissions or more dominant positions.

    I'll put up a bunch of gifs when I have some time.

    In terms of the pass itself, I like to think of it like a top half guard, If you're in a position to put one of the opponents legs in between your legs you can likely attack the dope mount. This means you can use it from butterfly based attacks, DLR & RDLR hooks, force the position from seated guards or other passes and use it as a way to control side control whether the opponent is flat, turning in or turning away. Learning to combine it with knee cuts and threatening both directions is also super important imo.

    It's one of my favorite passes and It's something I have started making a study on a few times, but never quite got around to. One day I would love to really nerd out on the details and break down all the variations and options in depth.
     
  11. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    @biscuitsbrah

    Ok, now I have time! For absolute beginners, the first variation is imo the best way to learn how to use the dope mount. This variation is using it from side control to transition to mount.

    [​IMG]

    The reason this is a good place to start is that you take away all the variables you get trying to set up the dope mount as a pass. You also generally start off with good grips and your opponent is less likely to have their far arm in a position to block your non skipping knee from coming in. You also start off by turning the opponent away, making them likely to respond by turning back in which helps in flattening them when you dope mount. It's a really nice building block to teach you how to grip the upper body, as well as how your opponent may respond which helps in identifying potential submission opportunities.

    The next variation is in the grey area between a pass and side control, when the opponent decides to turn in when attempting to recover guard. This is helpful for learning to either proactively force the leg fold, or in this case reactively anticipate the leg fold. Here we see two passes ending up in two different variations of the dope mount that highlight this method.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Note how these examples use the opponent turning in and/or creating distance to create the leg fold. In these examples the dope mount is used as a way to consolidate and finish a pass chain. Note how each example ends in a different leg control finish, with Popovitch demonstrating the leg smash and Lovato Jr demonstrating the leg split. If you wanted to make the distinction, you could probably argue that these are two separate positions/techniques/passes as the control and options from both are different. I consider them to be the same purely based on how similar they are and the applicability of most setups for both.

    The leg smash generally relies on more sprawling type pressure and is more suited to moving to side control than the leg split.

    [​IMG]

    The leg smash is generally a quicker technique than the leg split imo, it's main use is to briefly pin the opponents legs and quickly transition to side control, either by walking around, windshield wipering over to pin and move around or floating over the opponent into side control when they try free their legs. The benefit of this method is that you can usually expose the opponents back similar to the leg drag once you pass to side control.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It's worth mentioning that you can attempt to pass to the mount from the leg smash too, however you are more likely to get put into half guard, or get your foot trapped in 3/4 mount. It's not a particularly big deal (watch Maia for some good examples) as you can usually work out to the mount anyway, or take the back from 3/4 mount.

    However if the mount is your ideal goal. In my opinion it is worth the extra effort to transition from the leg smash to the leg split.

    [​IMG]

    In the above post I mentioned that I consider the dope mount to be like a "top half guard" and if you compare how interrelated the dope mount and dog fight positions are you can see why. If you play any sort of traditional half with a strong emphasis on lateral driving attacks the leg split dope mount is a great control position and follow up.

    [​IMG]

    In other words to create the leg split we need to create isolation in the opponents legs. We can see this from a ton of positions. One of the most common is the "headquarters" position.

    [​IMG]

    This is one of the most common setups to the pass, and in my opinion is a great starting point. The reason why is because the headquarters position has a little bit of everything in terms of guard work. Based on above, Joslins left knee is turned outwards denying a DLR hook, his left leg also moves in a direction that is counter intuitive to using a RDLR hook. His right knee skips through, denying the opponent a butterfly hook or the ability to entangle through to guards like SLX. Because of his posture being upright enough to deny half guards and remain mobile yet low enough to keep a good base the headquarters position serves as a template as to how most guards can be attacked with the dope mount. Note that there are a number of setups into the headquarters, and while it is a good template there are also several good counters to this position, especially if you solely rely on the dope mount from here.

    Really the purpose of the headquarters is to provide a dominant passing platform and seek to deny dominant bottom controls. However there are other setups to isolate the opponents leg. One unique method is the Mendes Bros footwork to create isolation.

    [​IMG]

    Note how Rafa creates isolation through extension. This extension creates weakness in the opponents leg in regards to stopping lateral redirection. This is inability to stop lateral redirection allows Rafa to create the leg fold in the opponent to attack the dope mount. This is a tough method to develop, but works very well. Especially combined with the quick lateral movement, changes in range and elevation that distinguishes the Mendes bro's passing.

    Here we see a similar idea applied in a different method and situation.

    [​IMG]

    Note the principle behind this method is almost exactly the same as above. The difference here is that Joslin's opponent is creating the extention. Rather than use lateral movement to redirect the legs, Joslin removes pressure and then hip switches to change direction, redirecting into the leg fold via a smashing hip turn.

    Here we see Galvao use a similar example of this concept:

    [​IMG]

    Here we see Galvao drive into the opponents knee shield, incentivising the opponent to extend. Once the opponent does this, Galvao drags the opponents leg across to a splitting leg drag (redirection) also note the unique brabo grip once Galvao steps over the leg drag to move to the mount from the dope mount.

    Of course other passes that also rely on this isolation through smashing the leg, such as the leg drag can be easily combined. Here is an example from a conventional leg drag, windshield wipering to the dope mount.

    [​IMG]

    And the same transition can be done in reverse:

    [​IMG]

    A common situation that you might come across when attempting the dope mount is to get your non splitting knee trapped. Here you can see how a transition to the leg drag can bypass this situation. Note that this example uses a knee cut attempt to create a reaction from the opponent to create momentum to isolate the leg to create the leg fold.

    [​IMG]

    Another option from the foot trap dope mount, is to knee spin to attack another dope mount on the opposite side. In this particular example the practitioner continues the knee spin to face the opponents feet in order to attack the rolling back attack.

    [​IMG]

    The rolling back attack is an alternative option to mounting, and relies on the easy transition between the dope mount and 3/4 mount.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    In regards to the most common finish, the mount. I feel like the grips you take depend on personal preference, submissions/controls you prefer from mount and whether it is gi or nogi. As long as you can create space for the non splitting knee to get into the opponents side (normally by flattening) you should be fine. Here is a good example by Lovato, note how he uses the splitting leg to ratchet in and drive the opponent away:

    [​IMG]

    The grips you choose here, as well as how the opponent defends can setup several submission chains. It is possible to snatch the opponents head and neck and attack with guillotines.

    [​IMG]

    Also an opponent attacking an underhook on the splitting side, or proactively seeking an overhook allows you to attack overhook based attacks such as darces, monoplatas, omoplata's etc

    [​IMG]

    It is also possible to get your head under the opponents arm on the splitting side, this allows you to expose the kata gatame arm triangle and by extension the nogi ezekiel and chair sit back take.

    It is worth mentioning that you can also pass to side control from the leg split, either by windshield wipering to the splitting side or even backstepping/butt flopping to the non splitting side (usually followed by a pant grip and drive in to flatten)

    This only scratches the surface of some of the variations and the possibilities are near endless (I got the dope mount vs an opponents crappy leg lock attempt once) however most can be broken down into a simple framework of I.C.E

    • Isolate (create the leg fold, for example extension, redirection, turning, momentum, combination passing)
    • Control (hold the leg fold with either the leg smash or leg split)
    • Establish (create a position to pass to the side or mount, attack the back, submit or transition to another pass)
     
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  13. Anthas

    Anthas Yellow Belt

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    Been working and hiting this lately... Works really good against guys with a good knee shield on one side, I just atack the dope mount to the other and either go to mount or block the leg and go to the leg drag and then side mount
     
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  14. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Thank you Gambledub! I have a decent nearside underhook pass but never understood the Dope mount, thank you!
     
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  15. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    No problem, the nearside underhook is cool, i've only scratched the surface with that one though!
     
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  16. Anthas

    Anthas Yellow Belt

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    You blow my mind everytime man... congrats! I really hope you are teaching already, because I consider myself an student of the art, and I spend lots of time watching videos and trying to learn new techniques and concepts... but you are on a different level my friend.
     
  17. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    Haha thanks, i'm actually not that great of a teacher. I tend to go off on tangents, I find it hard to be succinct and often I lack the ability to troubleshoot problems people have if they haven't happened to me... did I mention I go off on tangents?
     
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  18. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Wow that was great gamble. I think I speak for everyone by saying thanks for posting that. Even though it's very fitting for a bj penn thread, I believe that deserves its own thread.

    Learning how to chain dope with kneecuts leg drags/smashes/splits is amazing.

    Are you a brown or black belt?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  19. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    LOL, nah. He's just GambleDub. In the gi, he's a white belt. In the no gi, his level of experience/ability is probably blue, perhaps with a stripe or two.
     
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  20. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Lool shit you never know nowadays. Some of these purples and Browns have all that knowledge and sandbag like crazy
     

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