Economy Bitcoin/Crypto is imploding

[Rob Battisti]

No no, bud. Turn all of your money into bitcoin, because bitcoin will replace money. No sell, only buy

You do realize that the whole idea of wealth accumulation by way of fixed assets is to borrow against them, right?

This is how Bitcoin will be used in the future. The legislation is already being written now.

I feel like some of you need even the most basic education on how money works. My goodness.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I feel like some of you need even the most basic education on how money works. My goodness.

Money as in dollars?

 

[Rob Battisti]

Money as in dollars?

Money can be described in multiple ways. Dollars or fiat is one of them.

It’s usually defined as a medium of exchange, unit of account or store of value

 

[AWilder]

What is my position?


The idea that an equity’s value is based off of the money flowing in and out of it is something I “pulled out of my ass”?

Do you realize how dumb you sound?

no, you brought up equity, demonstrating that you don't really know what you're talking about. Buying stocks, equity in a company, is very different than buying bitcoin. Is that the equivalence you are trying to make? You could just say what you want to say instead of asking questions. Bitcoin is far from holding equity because equity is tangible, a company owns things (buildings, factories, resources, etc.). Equity value is also driven by the performance of the company. Bitcoin value is driven by...convincing everyone it's worth something. Equity is more than just money coming and going, lol

 

[Rob Battisti]

At a certain point I understand you have no interest in understanding anything. I wish you the best in whatever goals you’re after. Whether financial or otherwise.

 

[Rob Battisti]

no, you brought up equity, demonstrating that you don't really know what you're talking about. Buying stocks, equity in a company, is very different than buying bitcoin. Is that the equivalence you are trying to make? You could just say what you want to say instead of asking questions. Bitcoin is far from holding equity because equity is tangible, a company owns things (buildings, factories, resources, etc.). Equity value is also driven by the performance of the company. Bitcoin value is driven by...convincing everyone it's worth something. Equity is more than just money coming and going, lol

I’m referring to an equity. The actual holding itself. This is obvious.

 

[Rob Battisti]

no, you brought up equity, demonstrating that you don't really know what you're talking about. Buying stocks, equity in a company, is very different than buying bitcoin. Is that the equivalence you are trying to make? You could just say what you want to say instead of asking questions. Bitcoin is far from holding equity because equity is tangible, a company owns things (buildings, factories, resources, etc.). Equity value is also driven by the performance of the company. Bitcoin value is driven by...convincing everyone it's worth something. Equity is more than just money coming and going, lol

Again, the value of the equity is absolutely determined by money flowing in and out. This isn’t disputable.

“equity value is driven by performance of the company”.

No. Performance of the company determines investment based on perceived value which impacts actual value.

 

[tenniswhiz]

I’d never argue otherwise.

I’m trying to inform the people who think that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme or think that because Bitcoin can be exchanged for fiat that it differs than any other kind of investment.

If you buy NVIDIA stock, you’ll exchange it for fiat. How is that different? As if it’s some kind of gotcha that the price of Bitcoin is assessed against USD.

It’s different because NVIDIA is a public company that earns money and shows promise to develop new products and earn even more in the future.
What is Bitcoin?

 

[Neph]

Again, the value of the equity is absolutely determined by money flowing in and out. This isn’t disputable.

The value is determined by the buyers and sellers, and can be by whatever metric they choose.

You're patently wrong with this.

Money in and out is cashflow. If this was how it was 'absolutely determined' in an 'indisputable' way, then startups that have negative cashflows for years would have no value at all. None of the AI we are seeing today would have any value. But they do, despite having cataclysmic outflows of cash.

 

[AWilder]

Again, the value of the equity is absolutely determined by money flowing in and out. This isn’t disputable.

“equity value is driven by performance of the company”.

No. Performance of the company determines investment based on perceived value which impacts actual value.

ok, now do bitcoin.

 

[AWilder]

Again, the value of the equity is absolutely determined by money flowing in and out. This isn’t disputable.

that's one measure of a company's performance.

“equity value is driven by performance of the company”.

No. Performance of the company determines investment based on perceived value which impacts actual value.

feels like we're getting a little circular here...

 

[Rob Battisti]

The value is determined by the buyers and sellers, and can be by whatever metric they choose.

You're patently wrong with this.

Money in and out is cashflow. If this was how it was 'absolutely determined' in an 'indisputable' way, then startups that have negative cashflows for years would have no value at all. None of the AI we are seeing today would have any value. But they do, despite having cataclysmic outflows of cash.

Buyers and sellers = money going and coming out. When I’m saying money going in I’m obviously saying buys and money going out is obviously sellers.

 

[Rob Battisti]

that's one measure of a company's performance.


feels like we're getting a little circular here...

People buy and selling is not a company performance metric

 

[Neph]

no, you brought up equity, demonstrating that you don't really know what you're talking about. Buying stocks, equity in a company, is very different than buying bitcoin. Is that the equivalence you are trying to make? You could just say what you want to say instead of asking questions. Bitcoin is far from holding equity because equity is tangible, a company owns things (buildings, factories, resources, etc.). Equity value is also driven by the performance of the company. Bitcoin value is driven by...convincing everyone it's worth something. Equity is more than just money coming and going, lol

You are correct that bitcoin is not an equity. You don't have ownership, voting rights over "Bitcoin", share in liabilities, etc.

 

[Neph]

Buyers and sellers = money going and coming out. When I’m saying money going in I’m obviously saying buys and money going out is obviously sellers.

This is terrible, terrible phrasing you should be more careful in what you write.

 

[Rob Battisti]

This is terrible, terrible phrasing you should be more careful in what you write.

I’m being careful in what I write.

I’ll be completely clear. When people buy shares, this is what I’m referring to as “money in” and when people sell it’s “money out”.

It’s not like it’s some novel way of describing it.

“Money is pouring out of X company” is very common phrasing.

 

[AWilder]

People buy and selling is not a company performance metric

yeah companies famously don't care about shareholder value...

bro...

 

[Rob Battisti]

@AWilder ill describe it like you’re in 3rd grade(which is your level of intelligence).

A public company produces things. They also express their future plans on what they will produce in the future. People will then invest in the company by buying shares based on the perceived value of what the company is doing. Some companies have a higher perceived value and have a higher P/E ratio.

This is why companies like Tesla trade much higher relatively to their production because investors perceive that in the future, that production has a higher ceiling.

This perceived value is what drives money to the company by way of stock purchases.

When people sell, that drives down the value of the company despite the company potentially having no change in production or revenue. This is why companies can beat in earnings but still drop in stock price.

Bitcoin doesn’t have a P/E ratio and doesn’t have earnings. It’s a commodity.

That commodity, like gold and silver, is based on perceived value.

You can argue that Bitcoin has less(you’d has no) utility compared to gold or silver, but it’s far closer to them than it is to an equity.

This is why your comparison to equities doesn’t hold weight.

 

[Rob Battisti]

yeah companies famously don't care about shareholder value...

bro...

They obviously care about their stock price. What in the world does that have to do with anything? I just spelled it out for you. In the last post.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Money can be described in multiple ways. Dollars or fiat is one of them.

It’s usually defined as a medium of exchange, unit of account or store of value

So dollars then?