Media Bisping: If Charles wins he surpasses Khabib and becomes LW GOAT

[surgeyou1]

That's retarded.

His wins are already better. Cope

 

[King in the North]

This is dumb. He’s not even better than BJ Penn at this point.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

In my eyes he will be a little bit ahead.

 

[Reaperman]

Charles has fought in the UFC 30 times, Khabib 13 - I mean come on, that’s over twice as many fights. Khabib simply doesn’t have enough fights in the UFC to keep the top spot.

 

[Skarsgard]

Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. The commission recognized the fight, and the record books recognize the title defense. In Oliveira’s case, he missed weight. Every other fighter on that whole damn card made weight. If everyone’s weight was off, then maybe we could say the scale was fucked. But Oliveira was the very last fighter to weigh in, and the only one to miss weight. It’s pretty clear he most likely had a bad weight cut.

Look, I’m a big Anderson Silva fan, and it sucks that he missed out on a title defense because Lutter missed weight. Silva made weight and did what he was supposed to do. But if Lutter was prohibited from winning the belt, then it’s not a defense. The belt was not up for grabs. Likewise, Charles missing weight precludes him from even being champ let alone having a defense. He missed weight, belt was vacated. End of story. I truly don’t get what is so hard to grasp about this.

Oh there’s always nuance. Let’s say Oliveira gets the belt back, and defends (officially I mean) 2 more times. Well, Khabib did that in one title reign. What Olives defends 3 times, and surpasses Khabib’s defense record? Well, Khabib is still 29-0 in the weight class; Oliveira certainly isn’t. Of course, someone else will say that Khabib’s got Iaquinta and Horcher and shit like that. Someone else will say, “Oh yeah, well Oliveira lost to Felder!”
And around and around we’ll go. There’s always room for nuance.

Most of what you've said in this back-and-forth has had merit and were solid points, but almost the entire card complained about being about a half pound above what they had anticipated. They made weight because of the extra pound. The only one who was vocal about everything being perfect was Gaethje, and he's hardly an unbiased party.

The rest of this GOAT shit is masturbatory. Why is being the champion the No. 1 criteria when we've seen the UFC withhold title shots in the past because of marketability and fighting style?

Khabib seemed to be a once-in-a-lifetime fighter and left before we saw his decline.
Charles is an amazing story of perseverance and grit.

 

[Doughie99]

My view is.... Oliveira is on a helluva run for sure. Guy is great fighter, now very well rounded and he has KOs and subs.

But.... although he ended up beating Chandler and Poirier and Gaethje in his last 3 fights, he WAS losing to all of those 3 guys until came back and got 2 subs (Poirier and Gaethje) and 1 KO (Chandler).
so...he is very resilient and he won the fights. But he got clipped by all 3 and i think knocked down by all 3 early in the fight. So tro be called (potentially) the GOAT when he was knocked down in several fights in a row? dunno about that.

He does have a great chin and excellent bounce-back ability and yes he can sub you really fast on the ground. But he nearly lost to 3 guys early on and Khabib was NEVER in that kind of danger in any fight.

 

[corrupted]

If he wins and calls out Khabib and Khabib does not accept. The it would be hard to argue. I am sure people will.

 

[Kompromat]

Won't be surprised that most of those who agree also think that Islam didn't deserve the TS and is just a cancrusher. They should consider Charles a GOAT by now then .. but hey, crowning him GOAT right in front of Khabib would feel nicer right?

 

[melans]

Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. The commission recognized the fight, and the record books recognize the title defense. In Oliveira’s case, he missed weight. Every other fighter on that whole damn card made weight. If everyone’s weight was off, then maybe we could say the scale was fucked. But Oliveira was the very last fighter to weigh in, and the only one to miss weight. It’s pretty clear he most likely had a bad weight cut.
.

Plenty of fighters were overweight in this event. One of the female fighters also spoke out about the scales.
Here's the weigh in results https://www.ufc.com/news/weigh-results-ufc-274-oliveira-vs-gaethje

 

[melans]

My view is.... Oliveira is on a helluva run for sure. Guy is great fighter, now very well rounded and he has KOs and subs.

But.... although he ended up beating Chandler and Poirier and Gaethje in his last 3 fights, he WAS losing to all of those 3 guys until came back and got 2 subs (Poirier and Gaethje) and 1 KO (Chandler).
so...he is very resilient and he won the fights. But he got clipped by all 3 and i think knocked down by all 3 early in the fight. So tro be called (potentially) the GOAT when he was knocked down in several fights in a row? dunno about that.

He does have a great chin and excellent bounce-back ability and yes he can sub you really fast on the ground. But he nearly lost to 3 guys early on and Khabib was NEVER in that kind of danger in any fight.

He didn't nearly lose to 3 guys.
He finished Gaethje in the first round in a fight he was "losing".
He would have been 1-1 with Poirier going into the third.
Chandler looked like he legitimately had him in trouble at one point, but still didn't last two rounds.

 

[BFoe]

Plenty of fighters were overweight in this event. One of the female fighters also spoke out about the scales.
Here's the weigh in results https://www.ufc.com/news/weigh-results-ufc-274-oliveira-vs-gaethje

Correction then, there was one other fighter that missed weight, I forgot about Dumont. According to your link, there were 30 fighters on that card, and 28 of them made weight.

 

[BFoe]

Most of what you've said in this back-and-forth has had merit and were solid points, but almost the entire card complained about being about a half pound above what they had anticipated. They made weight because of the extra pound. The only one who was vocal about everything being perfect was Gaethje, and he's hardly an unbiased party.

The rest of this GOAT shit is masturbatory. Why is being the champion the No. 1 criteria when we've seen the UFC withhold title shots in the past because of marketability and fighting style?

Khabib seemed to be a once-in-a-lifetime fighter and left before we saw his decline.
Charles is an amazing story of perseverance and grit.

There was another title fight on that card, and both made weight perfectly on their first attempt. I find it hard to believe that it was only because of the extra pound that these fighters made weight, fighters generally take that pound into account anyhow when cutting. Another poster just linked me to the weigh in results, and several fighters hit the target weight on the nose despite the 1 pound allowance (OSP was 205 exactly, Khaos was 170 exactly, Van Camp was 170, Gatto 125, and Loopy 115, plus Gaethje and the co-main title fight). I know that several fighters complained about the scale, so who knows—but we don’t just get to assume it was scale fuckery, and gift Oliveira a title defense when the reality was that he was stripped and ineligible to win. That’s just fantasy.

I understand context. Like, I’m not a Jon Jones fan, but I consider him undefeated. I don’t really hold the DQ loss against him. But if Jones had been LHW champ at the time, I sure as hell wouldn’t count it as a title defense either.

 

[ShotInTheTeeth]

Charles wins are top notch. IMO his top wins > Khabib's top wins (yes I know they share some common victories over guys like Poirier and Gaethje but still. Oliveira has faced nothing but killers lately and ran through them all. Gaethje, Poirier, Chandler, Ferguson. That is as good of a 4 fight win streak that anybody could have at LW.

Yes he has losses from earlier in his career when he seemed to always wilt and fold under pressure but I would love to see this modern version of Oliveira against Khabib if he were still active. I think that would have been a great fight.

 

[Doughie99]

He didn't nearly lose to 3 guys.
He finished Gaethje in the first round in a fight he was "losing".
He would have been 1-1 with Poirier going into the third.
Chandler looked like he legitimately had him in trouble at one point, but still didn't last two rounds.

ok then....I'll re-phrase and say that he had some bad moments with all 3 of those fighters. Yes he bounced back, and won, great. But Khabib (just to pick one GOAT candidate) never as far as i can remember had bad moments in any of his fights. Ok ...YEARS ago he had a hard fight against Tibau but I think we all know that there was, ahh, some, ahh, factors with Tibau that didnt quite make it a level playing field. Most people will know what i'm alluding to here.

I'm sticking with my previous Makhachev gets the victory inside the first 2 rounds prediction. But fair play to Oliveira if he gets the W this weekend. As long as it's an EXCITING fight that's the main thing, right?

 

[Lawrence]

No

Islam has only a couple credible wins in his entire career.

How does beating Islam catapult a fighter into GOAT status ?

Charles may be GOAT...

Beating Islam is not a barometer for anything really.

 

[Deleted member 498977]

Everyone is trying to to troll Khabib back into fighting Charles...

If he beats Islam and fails to call out Khabib then it would be extremely disappointing.

Khabib won't make 155 again...

170 vs GSP would be great, tho...

 

[HHJ]

It is funny how people always got the hammer and nails out and are in such a rush though. Its cute.

 

[NationWideNinja]

If you pull up Khabib’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 3 defenses.

If you pull up Oliveira’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 1 defense.

That’s it. Simple. IDGAF if your feelings tell you that Oliveira’s weigh in was fucky, and IDGAF if your feelings tell you Khabib’s weigh in was fucky. Khabib’s record is what it is. When Oliveira surpasses it, we can talk. He hasn’t. He won’t for at least 3-4 fights.

Lmao who gives a fuck about technicalities? Tf are you, a robot?

 

[NationWideNinja]

That would make Oliveiras top 5 wins (in no particular order):

Chandler
Poirier
Gaethje
Islam
Lee/Ferguson?

vs Khabibs:

Conor
Gaethje
Poirier
RDA
Barboza/Johnson?

I think Oliveiras top 5 deserves the nod here because of the Islam win, but in general overall career wise I would still give the LW Goat status to Khabib because of his almost flawless career.

 

[Simple Southerner]

No, besides beating Islam, he has to win 1-2 more fights after to be LW GOAT.