Media Bisping: If Charles wins he surpasses Khabib and becomes LW GOAT

[BFoe]

He defended against Justin Gaethje, dude was .5 lb off, stop fronting. Do I need to remind you how Khabib cheated the scale in dubai?

He didn’t defend shit against Gaethje, he missed weight and the title was vacated. These are facts. Your issue is that you seem to think I am some mega Khabib fan, and that’s not the case. While I think it’s fair to say I was a fan, I actually think Khabib’s resume is the weakest of the 8 divisional GOATs.

I frankly don’t care what you think happened or didn’t happen to Khabib on the scale.
Khabib factually has 3 defenses.
Oliveira has 1.

So AFAIC, he needs to win the belt back, then defend at least 2 more times so that his defense record at least ties Khabib’s, and then we can split hairs and debate over whether Oliveira’s overall LW resume trumps Khabib’s resume, which is a very dominant 29-0 but lacks name value (I’d say no, Oliveira needs to minimally surpass Khabib’s defense record). But until Oliveira does those things, there’s no debate.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Same shit, different day. Never change.

 

[Steve Fox]

How many defenses?

Several on Twitter.

 

[donkeyjr]

He didn’t defend shit against Gaethje, he missed weight and the title was vacated. These are facts. Your issue is that you seem to think I am some mega Khabib fan, and that’s not the case. While I think it’s fair to say I was a fan, I actually think Khabib’s resume is the weakest of the 8 divisional GOATs.

I frankly don’t care what you think happened or didn’t happen to Khabib on the sable.
Khabib factually has 3 defenses.
Oliveira has 1.

So AFAIC, he needs to win the belt back, then defend at least 2 more times so that his defense record at least ties Khabib’s, and then we can split hairs and debate over whether Oliveira’s overall LW resume trumps Khabib’s resume, which is a very dominant 29-0 but lacks name value (I’d say no, Oliveira needs to minimally surpass Khabib’s defense record). But until Oliveira does those things, there’s no debate.

I like how you skipped out on Khabib supposely missing weight against Justin in Dubai, but the corruptions in Dubai saved his ass. Dont tell me this is bs, when he has a history of missing weight. Go look at the dam weight in and see how bs it was.

 

[HuskySamoan]

It's just hard for me to rate it that highly when he lost to every wrestler he's ever fought essentially, and most believe he
lost to dunham 11 months before facing khabib.

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The truth is that RDA didn't do much of note before facing Khabib other than beat cowboy. He was still that hot and cold vet that had a habit of getting ground out by wrestlers. Only after the fact did he go on his championship run, and then retroactively people gave Khabib credit for this great win.

I disagree that being dominant is greater than finishing fights, but that's just a matter of opinion. It just seems like leaving your opponent unable to fight Is the holy grail of winning a fight. I mean, isn't that the point of a fight?

I actually think valuing someone getting the finish despite having a back and forth fight where they were rocked and dropped more highly than dominating someone someone from bell to bell is just absurd. Leaving your opponent unable to fight is the holy grail? I'd say the holy grail is winning without getting battered. Ya know Leon winning vs Usman isn't that impressive when he got dominated for the majority of the fight, if Khamzat mauled Usman for 25 minute but didn't get a stoppage it would clearly indicate he had a better performance, finishes are overrated because fans like them.

Snapping a 5 fight win streak and then that same guy going on another 5 fight win streak and winning a title is pretty impressive and that was clearly within the scope of RDA's prime and upside of his career, the controversial decision over Dunham is valuable to bring up and I am the first guy to note that Khabib was dominant over an era of LWs who were weak vs wrestlers and that RDA made a career long habit of being a solid MMA wrestler who still crumbled vs other wrestlers (Guida, Tibau, Khabib, Chiesa, Usman, Colby). I consider RDA that Khabib fought a way better win than the Chandler Oliveira fought.

I also again feel like Oliveira cannot be considered greater than Khabib until he moves past beating Khabib's leftovers which are Oliveira's signature wins, an old Ferguson, old Chandler who hasn't impressed me in the UFC and then his best wins Gaethje and Poirier both men Khabib beat with far less difficulty. Islam is the beginning of Oliveira making his claim as the LW GOAT. If he beats Islam, I'll respect that argument but I would probably still need to see a little more, one more win probably, two more definitely. Being undefeated and look pretty so consistently dominant without ever really getting hurts counts for something to me in terms of greatness, it means a guy like Oliveira who even during his reign has looked flawd and vulnerable along with his past losses needs to prove it a little more than he otherwise would.

 

[m249viking]

Goat anything jumped the shark

 

[Emjay]

There's no GOAT. There's just the next guy that did "better" than the last guy.

 

[BFoe]

I like how you skipped out on Khabib supposely missing weight against Justin in Dubai, but the corruptions in Dubai saved his ass. Dont tell me this is bs, when he has a history of missing weight.

If you pull up Khabib’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 3 defenses.

If you pull up Oliveira’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 1 defense.

That’s it. Simple. IDGAF if your feelings tell you that Oliveira’s weigh in was fucky, and IDGAF if your feelings tell you Khabib’s weigh in was fucky. Khabib’s record is what it is. When Oliveira surpasses it, we can talk. He hasn’t. He won’t for at least 3-4 fights.

 

[donkeyjr]

If you pull up Khabib’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 3 defenses.

If you pull up Oliveira’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 1 defense.

That’s it. Simple. IDGAF if your feelings tell you that Oliveira’s weigh in was fucky, and IDGAF if your feelings tell you Khabib’s weigh in was fucky. Khabib’s record is what it is. When Oliveira surpasses it, we can talk. He hasn’t. He won’t for at least 3-4 fights.

I guess Dc didnt cheat on his scale too huh. lol

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

If you pull up Khabib’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 3 defenses.

If you pull up Oliveira’s OFFICIAL record, you’ll find 1 defense.

That’s it. Simple. IDGAF if your feelings tell you that Oliveira’s weigh in was fucky, and IDGAF if your feelings tell you Khabib’s weigh in was fucky. Khabib’s record is what it is. When Oliveira surpasses it, we can talk. He hasn’t. He won’t for at least 3-4 fights.

Why have a discussion forum if official record determines everything and there's no need for nuance?

 

[MrBlackheart]

If your GOAT list changes over time, it means your original GOAT list was shit to begin with.

 

[forRealHuh]

If your GOAT list changes over time, it means your original GOAT list was shit to begin with.

Remember Tony’s win streak and very much the same discussion how he’d beat Khabib for sure and he’s in the GOAT discussion.

 

[BFoe]

I guess Dc didnt cheat on his scale too huh. lol

Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. The commission recognized the fight, and the record books recognize the title defense. In Oliveira’s case, he missed weight. Every other fighter on that whole damn card made weight. If everyone’s weight was off, then maybe we could say the scale was fucked. But Oliveira was the very last fighter to weigh in, and the only one to miss weight. It’s pretty clear he most likely had a bad weight cut.

Look, I’m a big Anderson Silva fan, and it sucks that he missed out on a title defense because Lutter missed weight. Silva made weight and did what he was supposed to do. But if Lutter was prohibited from winning the belt, then it’s not a defense. The belt was not up for grabs. Likewise, Charles missing weight precludes him from even being champ let alone having a defense. He missed weight, belt was vacated. End of story. I truly don’t get what is so hard to grasp about this.

Why have a discussion forum if official record determines everything and there's no need for nuance?

Oh there’s always nuance. Let’s say Oliveira gets the belt back, and defends (officially I mean) 2 more times. Well, Khabib did that in one title reign. What Olives defends 3 times, and surpasses Khabib’s defense record? Well, Khabib is still 29-0 in the weight class; Oliveira certainly isn’t. Of course, someone else will say that Khabib’s got Iaquinta and Horcher and shit like that. Someone else will say, “Oh yeah, well Oliveira lost to Felder!”
And around and around we’ll go. There’s always room for nuance.

 

[dc007]

Obvious take is obvious.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

What are you talking about @Stump Islam Makhachev and Beneil were clearly bigger contenders and the only reason Poirier, Chandler and Gaethje got title shots is because they were Americans who already had hype as former contenders who avoided actual contenders, not because they earned 2nd title shots or were better skill wise. It's not retrospective, you can catch my posts back then stating how I felt several of the guys below them that are now currently in the top 10 were better but just aren't given chances because that's how the business works.

All and all were mostly on the same page, we don't have to evaluate things the exact same but I laid out my opinions and how I see it thoroughly. I'd agree if Charles beats Islam and another top guy be it Gamrot/Beneil or Volk he has a strong case, if he defends once more after that I'd wager Charles will have pretty definitively surpassed Khabib. No nitpicking about it, I haven't a dog in this it's just how I see it.

And still Poirier and Gaethje are two of Khabib’s best wins. Poirier is probably his best win. But now they’re too weak to consider for Charles compared to Khabib? Doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Arcticman]

Yeah the numbers dont lie 8 lossses compared to 0.

One guy gets battered for half the the fight and the other guy is talking to dana during the fight while he smashes the guy to peices.

 

[BoomStronk]

So a guy who takes way more damage than Khabib, has a much worse record than Khabib, and would have fewer title defenses than Khabib would surpass Khabib as the LW GOAT?

totally makes sense.

No, a guy who fought WAY more elite competition, beat WAY more elite competition and has as many title defences would surpass Khabib. Easily.

Even the guy in the gif you posted is arguably as good or better a LW than Khabib. He was an amazing fighter and likely would have been the best ever, but we can't say he is with such a pathetic record against top 5 opponents.

 

[BoomStronk]

And still Poirier and Gaethje are two of Khabib’s best wins. Poirier is probably his best win. But now they’re too weak to consider for Charles compared to Khabib? Doesn’t make any sense.

The logic is absent. As if Beniel would have done better against khabib or Charles as Gaetje did. As if fighters only get worse after unsuccesful title fights.

GSP, for example, went downhll after he fought Sera :|

 

[Skarsgard]

He only has 1 loss at Lightweight

Didn't he get submitted by Jim Miller and TKO'd by Cerrone before dropping down?

 

[xn7]

It’s be hard to argue against it, unless you want to count early career losses pretty high on the scale

HOW DOES. LOSSES AT FW. FACTOR INTO LW GOAT STATUS. Thanks for listening.