Big Nog's legacy

[HockeyBjj]

Werdum is ahead of him in terms of HW GOAT as is Stipe and a couple others.
H2H quite a few beat him up.
He has little legacy as he won’t be remembered much outside a small section of the already small pride cult/fandom

Spoken like a true white belt who joined in May

 

[CashMoney1991]

Big Nog is a legend no doubt but one of the most overrated fighters ever, Fedor is 1, Stipe 2, DC 3 then maybe Nog after that, Nog did have some awesome fights, had good boxing, great BJJ and an amazing chin

 

[arrmike]

You can't pick when a fighter is out of his prime just to fit your narrative. Prime Nog got spanked by Mir twice and Cain

So that means that Prime Nog got head kicked by Herring and saved by the bell. So who was the Nog who subbed him in PRIDE?

 

[Little Mac]

Man Big Nog in Pride had Wars!!! Everyone talks about his fight with Sapp, For me it was his War against Cro-Cop.

Big Nog was getting destroyed and then I remember when he came up with the slick takedown and then armbar. However all those wars and damage he took affected his endurance.

But man one of the legends of Pride!!!

 

[The Demon Sword]

Spoken like a true white belt who joined in May

Nice rebuttal!

 

[Tweak896]

Big Nog has the record to be one of the best HWs and was considered a lock #2 during the pride era. However I think today people see how his skill set isn't as well rounded, he's from an era where you only needed 2 skillsets out of 3.

His standup wasn't amazing, he had a good chin and decent boxing but couldn't KO many standing. His BJJ was amazing, but hard to say if that would win him fights alone. He never had much wrestling or judo. His wins came from durability and the lack of BJJ defense at the time. Fighters today know to stay in positions where they can't be subbed, while the wrestlers during pride would just get swept and subbed like white belts.
He's one of the greats, but hard to compare him to modern fighters with such a skillset that wouldn't work today.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Big Nog is a legend no doubt but one of the most overrated fighters ever, Fedor is 1, Stipe 2, DC 3 then maybe Nog after that, Nog did have some awesome fights, had good boxing, great BJJ and an amazing chin

Cormiers good HW wins - Bigfoot, Barnett, Mir, Stipe, Lewis, Monson, Nelson

Nogs good HW wins - Crocop, Barnett, Werdum, Sylvia, Sergei, Herring x 3, Semmy, Ricco, Coleman, Sapp, Randy, Hendo, Goodridge

You could arguebly add a few more names on for Nog as well like Reem the elder who was sucessful at the time with wins over Randy and Babalu.

Overall career wise there closer but just at HW Cormier doesnt have the record, much of his prime was spent at LHW.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Mir was the UFC champion in 2004. Fedor was the PRIDE champion in 2004.

So no, I didn't leave anybody out.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/PRIDE-Judge-Matt-Hume-Defends-Nog-vs-Ricco-Decision-1157
The American catch-wrestler PRIDE judge Matt Hume, who was actually judging the fight that night, disagrees with your opinion.

If it was a UFC fight, yes the fight would have been scored for Ricco because he spent the whole fight on top of Nog. But in PRIDE effort to finish and damage are ranked as a higher judging criteria than ground control. Nog attempted 7 different submissions in that fight compared to Ricco's 0 and their significant strikes were nearly identical.

http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/b99405e9fa6223f6

Ricco attempted to lay and pray his way to a victory, and that probably would have done the job in the early UFC days, but in PRIDE they had a different judging criteria... FYI, current day UFC has changed their own judging criteria to resemble something much closer to PRIDE criteria because they acknowledge their early judging criteria was bad. Damage is now the highest criteria when it used to be control.

Ahhh so Mir wasnt a contemporary of Nog huh? Because you cherrt-picked a 2 YEAR timeframe??


You guys are the best

 

[MartinGibson86]

Cormiers good HW wins - Bigfoot, Barnett, Mir, Stipe, Lewis, Monson, Nelson

Nogs good HW wins - Crocop, Barnett, Werdum, Sylvia, Sergei, Herring x 3, Semmy, Ricco, Coleman, Sapp, Randy, Hendo, Goodridge

You could arguebly add a few more names on for Nog as well like Reem the elder who was sucessful at the time with wins over Randy and Babalu.

Cormiers status is really spilt between HW and LHW, he doesnt have enough wins to be anywhere close to the top of the former division.

You can stay in that fantasy world where Coleman, Goodridge, Hendo, Semmy,and fucking SAPP are good wins for a GOAT candidate HW lol.

 

[Taric]

Ahhh so Mir wasnt a contemporary of Nog huh? Because you cherrt-picked a 2 YEAR timeframe??


You guys are the best

I dunno if you know this but Nogueira was the PRIDE HW champion from 2001-2003. In that time span the UFC had 4 different UFC HW champions; Randy Couture, Josh Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, and Tim Sylvia.... Big Nog defeated all 4 of his contemporaries.

... I'm sorry that you don't know how to read?

 

[SaigeVanZant]

So that means that Prime Nog got head kicked by Herring and saved by the bell. So who was the Nog who subbed him in PRIDE?

Anyone can get caught

 

[Deleted member 110072]

You can stay in that fantasy world where Coleman, Goodridge, Hendo, Semmy,and fucking SAPP are good wins for a GOAT candidate HW lol.

Let me guess Goodridge is aweful and Derrick Lewis is truely great? Coleman coming off of winning the 2000 GP? Semmy a top 3 HW kickboxer ever with years of MMA training isnt significant? I'd like to see Ngannou fight that Semmy today.

If you only include the biggest names at their peaks then that slims down Cormiers list alot doesnt it and if I took your dishonest line of argument I could rubbish all of them.

Anyone can get caught

Dodgy eyesight starting to play a factor IMHO but he wasnt saved by the bell, Heath had the chance to follow up but Nog was able to hang on.

I think the very first signs maybe when Barnett caught him in the first fight but Sylvia was clearly landing much more easily then Mir the first time Nog couldnt see the same simple combo coming again and again.

 

[gono btw]

However I think today people see how his skill set isn't as well rounded, he's from an era where you only needed 2 skillsets out of 3.

His standup wasn't amazing, he had a good chin and decent boxing but couldn't KO many standing. His BJJ was amazing, but hard to say if that would win him fights alone. He never had much wrestling or judo. His wins came from durability and the lack of BJJ defense at the time. Fighters today know to stay in positions where they can't be subbed, while the wrestlers during pride would just get swept and subbed like white belts.
He's one of the greats, but hard to compare him to modern fighters with such a skillset that wouldn't work today.

A skill set is always related to a specific Fight Configuration & Scorin´System.
What you consider ineffective in current Scorin´System doesnt invalidate it.
Them bein´subbed or not, havin´legit sub defense or not, is not the main factor of that equation:
how Nog´s skill set translated into the ring accordin´to the Scorin´System´s main paradigms [Effort to Finish / Damage] is what truly matters.

Overall, your technical assessment of his skill set seems rather off: from the Rings days to the Pride ones, he did showcase a constant evolution of it, from a pure grappler to a well-rounded competitor who added boxin´ [see vs Sergei or Werdum 1] then even a clinch game [see Barnett 2] to his arsenal.

Ahhh so Mir wasnt a contemporary of Nog huh? Because you cherrt-picked a 2 YEAR timeframe??


You guys are the best

This is reality:

Mir was 29 yrs old & it was his 15th fight.
Nog was 32 yrs old & it was his 38th fight.

 

[Amerikuracana]

100% top 10, and for most top 5.

 

[Amerikuracana]

You can stay in that fantasy world where Coleman, Goodridge, Hendo, Semmy,and fucking SAPP are good wins for a GOAT candidate HW lol.

those are GREAT wins at the time they happened lol

 

[MartinGibson86]

A skill set is always related to a specific Fight Configuration & Scorin´System.
What you consider ineffective in current Scorin´System doesnt invalidate it.
Them bein´subbed or not, havin´legit sub defense or not, is not the main factor of that equation:
how Nog´s skill set translated into the ring accordin´to the Scorin´System´s main paradigms [Effort to Finish / Damage] is what truly matters.

Overall, your technical assessment of his skill set seems rather off: from the Rings days to the Pride ones, he did showcase a constant evolution of it, from a pure grappler to a well-rounded competitor who added boxin´ [see vs Sergei or Werdum 1] then even a clinch game [see Barnett 2] to his arsenal.


This is reality:

Mir was 29 yrs old & it was his 15th fight.
Nog was 32 yrs old & it was his 38th fight.

How old is Reem and how many gights? How many were partial rules Rings fights?

32 is the avg age of all champs in Bellator and UFC and that includes women and manlets---liower peak age than HW. A 35 year old just fought a 32 year old for the LW title. That 32 year old has 28 ufc fights and Chandler was 10 years removed from winning the Bellator title.

Thats a BS excuse. Mir was in a body cast for a year before fighting Nog lol

 

[gono btw]

How old is Reem and how many gights? How many were partial rules Rings fights?

32 is the avg age of all champs in Bellator and UFC and that includes chicks and manlets---liower peak age than HW. A 35 year old just fought a 32 year old for the LW title. That 32 year old has 28 ufc fights and Chandler was 10 years removed from winning the Bellator title.

Thats a BS excuse. Mir was in a body cast for a year before fighting Nog lol

The reality back then:

@5mn30 Lil Nog vs Mezger:

Quadros:" Is age gonna be a factor in this fight?"

Bas: "After a certain age... 30... 35... your body no longer recovers the same way any more..and age is a big factor. Of course, you get more knowledge...but stamina, recovery from injuries...all those things... become more difficult.."

 

[fatmanthenextbatman]

if anyone can use excuses , its NOG. The guy took a a career lifetime of a beating for our entertainment and brought back faith in bjj during in an era where wrestlers were dominant. Hespect.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

RESPECT!!!!

 

[X Factor]

Big Nog has the record to be one of the best HWs and was considered a lock #2 during the pride era. However I think today people see how his skill set isn't as well rounded, he's from an era where you only needed 2 skillsets out of 3.

His standup wasn't amazing, he had a good chin and decent boxing but couldn't KO many standing. His BJJ was amazing, but hard to say if that would win him fights alone. He never had much wrestling or judo. His wins came from durability and the lack of BJJ defense at the time. Fighters today know to stay in positions where they can't be subbed, while the wrestlers during pride would just get swept and subbed like white belts.
He's one of the greats, but hard to compare him to modern fighters with such a skillset that wouldn't work today.

Hit the nail on the head