Big Nog's legacy

[Баса́ев]

1. Fedor
2. Stipe
3. Big Nog
4. Werdum
5. Cain

 

[ryun253]

He should have retired after beating Randy

 

[TJ Dillashank]

number 2 HW GOAT

 

[maximus__]

Not enough respect is shown to this guy who could make a very strong case for #2 heavy weight goat status. Here is a reminder to how great he was for all those cashews who don't put enough respec on his name and think that some ufc flavor of the month hw is better.

Noguiera was more special than what his ufc career would suggest. Check it out, this came out yesterday. The narrators voice might be cringe but he is on point otherwise.

Fedor 1
Stipe 2
DC 3

The above is probably my current but Francis will overtake both Stipe and DC a couple defences.
I will defend DCs spot by the strikeforce GP wins where he took out a mix of top pride and UFC guys and his wins over Stipe and Lewis. I acknowledge I am reaching and you could put Overrem or Francis here easily.

Nog was great in Pride, but his UFC run had too many losses and puts him at about 5-10.

 

[omawho402]

He finished two of the least liked fighters of all time ever-Timmy n Schaub.

He cool wit me

 

[gono btw]

Nog was great in Pride, but his UFC run had too many losses and puts him at about 5-10.

How many surgeries did he have b4 his UFC run?

 

[loyalsword21]

He's incredible. Wish I appreciated those pride days more when it was happening lol. Nog vs fedor was so insane.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The glory and the oppurtunity for it isnt there. Due to alot of factors.

One is that if we had DC,Cain,Stipe,JDS,Ngannou,Cyril Gane,Werdum and a few others,all in their prime at the same time,we really could have had something,but everything is all spaced out,and with injuries,inactivity and the age of some of the fighters when the fights finally occured.

Maybe Stipe,Dc or Cain would have risen above the rest,and been dominant...but there just wasnt an oppurtunity to "out-do" Fedor and nog who were in the shit their whole careers. Taking out the old guard...and the current...

During the late 00's and early 10's as well I think there was more of a sense of "paper scissors stone" to HW, JDS > Werdum, Werdum > Cain, Cain > JDS which I don't think existed during the early/mid 00's.

You look at Nogs career up to the first loss to Mir and really the only defintive losses are to Fedor, dodgy decision loss to Hendo in Rings early on, very close loss to Barnett in Pride and both of them avenged in more convincing fashion. Remove the concencus #1 HW and Nog becomes the dominant name of that era, I think more dominant than any HW has been since.

 

[Taric]

You left out Mir.

Mir was the UFC champion in 2004. Fedor was the PRIDE champion in 2004.

So no, I didn't leave anybody out.

Ricco beat Nog. The Pride broadcast team and Nog himself knew it.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/PRIDE-Judge-Matt-Hume-Defends-Nog-vs-Ricco-Decision-1157
The American catch-wrestler PRIDE judge Matt Hume, who was actually judging the fight that night, disagrees with your opinion.

If it was a UFC fight, yes the fight would have been scored for Ricco because he spent the whole fight on top of Nog. But in PRIDE effort to finish and damage are ranked as a higher judging criteria than ground control. Nog attempted 7 different submissions in that fight compared to Ricco's 0 and their significant strikes were nearly identical.

http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/b99405e9fa6223f6

Ricco attempted to lay and pray his way to a victory, and that probably would have done the job in the early UFC days, but in PRIDE they had a different judging criteria... FYI, current day UFC has changed their own judging criteria to resemble something much closer to PRIDE criteria because they acknowledge their early judging criteria was bad. Damage is now the highest criteria when it used to be control.

 

[bongwater]

An absolute legend of the game. His # of quality wins is extremely high.

You call the guy in the gif a quality win!? you forget he got crushed like a bug by legend comic brenda schaub

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Pillow fist Cain almost murdered him. Make up any horseshit excuse you want. He was fresh off the Couture win and ko'd schaub his next fight.

Standing Cain has typically shown good power, its only JDS's chin that allowed him to survive so long in the rematches.

Realistically both Randy and Nog were clearly declined in that fight and indeed Couture whilst a great story wasnt really proven as at the very top of HW in the previous era, Nog in that fight was taking way more punishment than he did earlier in his career and I think someone like 2004 Sergei would likely have murked him.

Schaub was never that good, depended on fighting declining big names but even then Nog still had enough left to finish him.

Mir was the UFC champion in 2004. Fedor was the PRIDE champion in 2004.

So no, I didn't leave anybody out.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/PRIDE-Judge-Matt-Hume-Defends-Nog-vs-Ricco-Decision-1157
The American catch-wrestler PRIDE judge Matt Hume, who was actually judging the fight that night, disagrees with your opinion.

If it was a UFC fight, yes the fight would have been scored for Ricco because he spent the whole fight on top of Nog. But in PRIDE effort to finish and damage are ranked as a higher judging criteria than ground control. Nog attempted 7 different submissions in that fight compared to Ricco's 0 and their significant strikes were nearly identical.

http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/b99405e9fa6223f6

Ricco attempted to lay and pray his way to a victory, and that probably would have done the job in the early UFC days, but in PRIDE they had a different judging criteria... FYI, current day UFC has changed their own judging criteria much closer to resembling something much closer to PRIDE's than how early UFC judging was done. Damage is now the highest criteria when it used to be control.

I mean realistically if someone wanted to put that as a draw I wouldnt care too much BUT the kind of people who obcess about that result are I'm guessing the same kind of people who will argue till their blue in the face that Jones definitely beat Gus, Santos and Reyes. Again the flipside is Nog lost decisions against Hendo and Barnett, the former was IMHO MUCH more questionable, Hendo won by defending armbars on his back.

You also have the reality that Nog was not picking up many(any?) wins against post prime fighter in Pride were as the guys people seem to be rankign above him like Stipe have loads of such wins.

 

[DayV]

Facts are simple.

Nogueira has over 20 good MMA wins in career, and he was champion in 3 totally different MMA rules and envrionments and that beats anything any modern UFC champion has done.


Cain has 9 good wins in career.
DC has 8 good HW wins.
Stipe has 10-12.

 

[Taric]

You also have the reality that Nog was not picking up many(any?) wins against post prime fighter in Pride were as the guys people seem to be rankign above him like Stipe have loads of such wins.

It's just the nature of fandom in this sport for some reason. History in other sports gets remembered, Jerry Rice is still considered the wide receiver GOAT 30 years later for example, while in MMA it's what have you done for me lately. Nog was the #1 HW when most people didn't even watch MMA so nobody cares about any of his accomplishments.

Such is life.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

It's just nature of fandom in this sport for some reason. History in other sports gets remembered, Jerry Rice is still considered the WR GOAT 30 years later for example, while in MMA it's what have you done for me lately. Nog was the #1 HW when most people didn't even watch MMA so nobody cares about any of his accomplishments.

Such is life.

Although I would say its actually less true of the ex Pride names, UFC hyped fighters tend to fall faster in peoples estimations when the hype is removed.

People here were sure Cain was the best HW ever 6-7 years ago, then it was Stipe, now its Ngannou.

 

[Taric]

Oh definitely. If you told people Cain wasn't the GOAT while he was champion you'd get a 100 posts telling you you were stupid.

Now he's lucky to make a top 5, and maybe even top 10, list.

The MMA crowd is a fickle bunch. The newest champion is always the greatest fighter to ever fight.

 

[Tito Tapped]

Although I would say its actually less true of the ex Pride names, UFC hyped fighters tend to fall faster in peoples estimations when the hype is removed.

People here were sure Cain was the best HW ever 6-7 years ago, then it was Stipe, now its Ngannou.

It really was Cain, and then it really was Stipe.

Ngannou is just the flavor of the month and there's a lot of fans who don't seem to be into it.

 

[HaulParris]

He's a true legend if the sport, and gave us incredible highlights.

 

[SaigeVanZant]

Fedor was older and further past his prime than Mir was when they fought.

Nog was not in his prime, he was shot by the time he got to the UFC, and he still won the interim title. You just proved you don't know Mma.. stop posting until you get some knowledge.

You can't pick when a fighter is out of his prime just to fit your narrative. Prime Nog got spanked by Mir twice and Cain

 

[MCS]

Nog was #1 for a while, also in p4p, then #2 behind Fedor for most of the time from 2003-2008, while Barnett dropped him to #3 for a short while until he came back and won UFC Interim.

His prime was something like from winning the belt in 01 to beating Barnett in 06. Past it when he came to the UFC, so much slower and less durable. Without Fedor he'd be seen as the #1 HW ever because of his record and the time on top. Some would put Stipe over him. I don't think it's the same as Nog has more good wins and beat those guys when they were younger.

Most known for heart, comebacks. Lasting legacy isn't much. He never gets mentioned and is overshadowed by Fedor and Stipe. Pride folded in 07, so it's understandable as that is a long time ago.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

You can't pick when a fighter is out of his prime just to fit your narrative. Prime Nog got spanked by Mir twice and Cain

So basically decline doesnt exist?

It seems a lot of the time decline exists when the fighters you like lose but not when the ones you don't do.

With Nog its pretty fucking obvious though isnt it? I mean watch Nog vs Sergei and then vs Mir and tell me thats the same fighter getting caught by the same simple combo again and again.