Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[fightfan84]

Because had an opportunity to respond to verbal commands, Herb at least made an effort.

Chiesa didnt get a chance, it was immediately called.

Are you now arguing that Hern should be just called it without checking on Robbie?? And that is why they need to rematch??

I said there would be a better argument if he did. He still would have been wrong though . We now have the benefit of seeing the reaplay that show Robbie was never out at anytime. But if herb stopped it from the moment his arm dropped that is a different argument all together. But the thing is he didn't herb is the one who did the arm check. That single moment is what makes a rematch make so much sense. He missed the response. Us missing the response watching it on tv isn't the same as the ref doing it, and failing to watch for a response. Herb must have just thought Robbie was out, did the protocol arm grab and didn't think to watch for a response. A fight being called off when both fighters are perfectly ok to continue is an issue

 

[TheComputerGuy]

Yes Faber won that fight with a bulldog choke over the chin.

He won that fight by eye poke. It was also a tap not a choke. Already said it was painful and you could get a tap from pain

 

[thehighking]

How is this thread still going on?

Lawler was out, Askren noticed this and let off on the choke as Herb stopped it and Robbie woke up (because Askren let go of the choke).

Nobody wanted Lawler's head cracked [cue the Askren watermelon YouTube videos] and we're all thankful it was stopped when it was.

Time to move on to each guys next fight.

You don't really believe that. If you do then you are deranged

 

[JRubin]

I said there would be a better argument if he did. He still would have been wrong though . We now have the benefit of seeing the reaplay that show Robbie was never out at anytime. But if herb stopped it from the moment his arm dropped that is a different argument all together. But the thing is he didn't herb is the one who did the arm check. That single moment is what makes a rematch make so much sense. He missed the response. Us missing the response watching it on tv isn't the same as the ref doing it, and failing to watch for a response. Herb must have just thought Robbie was out, did the protocol arm grab and didn't think to watch for a response. A fight being called off when both fighters are perfectly ok to continue is an issue

Ok so just so were clear Herb should of just called it rather than check on Robbie because your saying that would've been more fair to Robbie?? And if he had just called it then there would be no need for a rematch, but because he checked on Robbie that now there has to not only be a rematch but also the decision needs to be overturned??

This is the case your making??

 

[fightfan84]

Yes Faber won that fight with a bulldog choke over the chin.

Ok so just so were clear Herb should of just called it rather than check on Robbie because your saying that would've been more fair to Robbie?? And if he had just called it then there would be no need for a rematch, but because he checked on Robbie that now there has to not only be a rematch but also the decision needs to be overturned??

This is the case your making??

Not even almost lol. I said there was a better case for herb to call the fight at that moment. But he didn't. That's the problem he went and checked to see if Robbie was conscious. That's where he fucked up .if he didn't check on Robbie and just went off the arm falling limp there would be a better argument . He would have still got it wrong.

 

[The6 mma]

You can't prove that, my faith tells me otherwise.

I will not question your faith. You win.

 

[James4210]

"The arm drop" is the new "back and to the left." For my money, Robbie went out there. When/how he came to again is up for discussion, but that he went out right there seems clear cut to me.

I agree totally, that Dropped arm is beyond belief the way that ripple goes through the arm back to the shoulder, how can anyone believe he wasn't out. I challenge anyone, in the whole of MMA history to show something similar, when a fighter just drops their arm lifeless, just for the sake of it.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

Case closed.
Herb fucked it up.

 

[sutherland]

The bulldog choke on the chin is actually a blood choke. It also hurts like hell, but it didn't look like Robbie was going to tap due to pain.
You don't have to take my word for it, many renowned bjj experts have YT videos you can look into.

And many Bjj experts say it was nothing, the reaction of herb and robbie after should tell u all u need to know. When Robbie put he hand down(goes limp in ur eye) u and see ben driving has hips up and putting more pressure on Robbie. He was never out

 

[Shuque]

And many Bjj experts say it was nothing, the reaction of herb and robbie after should tell u all u need to know. When Robbie put he hand down(goes limp in ur eye) u and see ben driving has hips up and putting more pressure on Robbie. He was never out

Anyone who says it was nothing, has never been in that choke.

Yes the stoppage was early, but he wasn't getting out of that choke and he was going to go unconcious way before Askren was going to get tired of squeeezing.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Anyone who says it was nothing, has never been in that choke.

Yes the stoppage was early, but he wasn't getting out of that choke and he was going to go unconcious way before Askren was going to get tired of squeeezing.

Assumptions.

We can't ref/judge fights by what we think is going to happen.

 

[king_ebeneezer]

I agree totally, that Dropped arm is beyond belief the way that ripple goes through the arm back to the shoulder, how can anyone believe he wasn't out. I challenge anyone, in the whole of MMA history to show something similar, when a fighter just drops their arm lifeless, just for the sake of it.

I agree but it doesn't even matter if he was or wasn't out. The rule is defend yourself at all times. If you go limp noodle the ref has the discretion to stop the fight. Fair stoppage.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

 

[I.Broke.The.Bat!]

It's not proof. It's assumption. A proof is him with a thumb up.

 

[acannxr]

It's not proof. It's assumption. A proof is him with a thumb up.

If you'd read page two, you'd know that I was being sarcastic.

 

[sutherland]

Anyone who says it was nothing, has never been in that choke.

Yes the stoppage was early, but he wasn't getting out of that choke and he was going to go unconcious way before Askren was going to get tired of squeeezing.

He wasn't going out, I guess ur just a pussy that would tap to the pain if u think that was doing anything other than squeezing.

 

[Shuque]

He wasn't going out, I guess ur just a pussy that would tap to the pain if u think that was doing anything other than squeezing.

Yeah, I tap to pain all the time. I got nothing to prove.

You on the other hand have obviously never grappled or rolled or else you would know that happens all the time.

But rather than arguing with me, why don't you get on youtube and educate these guys since you're the real expert.

 

[sutherland]

Yeah, I tap to pain all the time. I got nothing to prove.

You on the other hand have obviously never grappled or rolled or else you would know that happens all the time.

But rather than arguing with me, why don't you get on youtube and educate these guys since you're the real expert.

Lol these are still just opinions, I can pull up just as many videos to support that choke wouldn't do shit. I'm not saying there is no way possible to finish with a bulldog choke (super rare to put someone out) but not that one at least not yet. Herbs reactions says it all. Given time maybe but more likely Ben's arms would have gasaed

 

[Shuque]

Lol these are still just opinions, I can pull up just as many videos to support that choke wouldn't do shit. I'm not saying there is no way possible to finish with a bulldog choke (super rare to put someone out) but not that one at least not yet. Herbs reactions says it all. Given time maybe but more likely Ben's arms would have gasaed

Of course these are all opinions. But your opinion is worthless (mine also tbh) compared to their opinion.

And since you brought it up, I'm curious to see if you could find a legit bjj black belt that has a different opinion than this.

That said, I've been saying all along it was an early stoppage and obviously there's no way to be 100 % sure of the outcome of the fight if it goes on, but I'd say it's north of 95% that he was going out.

So you can scream that Lawler got robbed, but it was actually a better outcome for him in that position since everyone is focussing on the early stoppage rather than him going out and there being no doubt.

 

[sutherland]

There no way in hell he was out, he gave a thumbs up, herb knew, Ben's knows it, fuck anyone with two eyes and a brain knows it. I'm done