Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[JRubin]

So you accept that it was a failed call on the ref to stop the fight when he stopped it. But that doesn't warrant a rematch in your books because the outcome was set in stone? And you know this because you do BJJ? Lol. I never said Robbie was in no trouble. Robbie himself has said that though .what k said is I have enough expierence in grappling that I know you can never assume people are out of it. I've seen in MMA and BJJ many many times people get out of bad positions. Happens a lot. I'm shocked you've never seen someone get out of a bad position before .it makes me question the gym you go to. People get put in he's and the match just ends because it's pointless to see the outcome. You guys there just all accept it's over. Weird mind set man.

Sigh, wasnt set in stone, but higher probability like I stated very clearly.

 

[fightfan84]

Sigh, wasnt set in stone, but higher probability like I stated very clearly.

Any probability doesn't change it from being an opinion on the outcome. Your slowly starting to get it I think lol.

 

[deadshot138]

 

[kflo]

At least there seems to be some rational consensus it was a very bad call and we are left discussing how certain it was that Ben would finish a submission.

I think the Gracie video didn’t have the proper assessment of where Ben’s hands were across robbies head and that obviously allows fans to confirm what they want to believe (or just trust them as experts, which I understand). It’s almost impossible to see in the video and has only been clearer in blown up stills. And they throw out their vids quick.

Robbie was in danger for sure but debatable the certainty of threat.

 

[The6 mma]

The issue is because of an error we will never know. To assume the assault he took in the beginning of the round did play a part in how his endurance and strength would be is also a joke. Ppl love to point out his strength and abalilities but leave out the tremendous beating he took before it .

Also, human physiology only allows you to maintain maximum squeeze for so long. I know you Ben nut huggers see him as god like, but he is human. Fight was stopped early give RL the rematch and move on.

 

[kflo]

I’m also ok with no rematch just don’t treat future matchmaking (and internal rankings) as if Ben beat robbie.

Of course I also understand that Ben is actually the easier sell for the ufc these days, despite his claims they hate him.

 

[da best eva]

That's after his hand drops flat from being out.

1. You don’t know that
2. If he did go unconscious, you stop it then and there. Not later when he is concious and giving thumbs up.

Imagine a fight like Cheick Kongo vs Pat Berry being stopped when Kongo is fighting back after flash ko cuz he may have been out earlier. Makes no sense

 

[sonofjay817]

I like askren but the reaction to what happened by him and his fanboys is bizarre.
From what we saw the fight was clearly ended prematurely. Robbie gave herb the okay, + he wasn't disorientated on the break even for a millisecond.

You cannot talk about hypotheticals or fabricate a narrative about robbie being out and waking back up. There's simply nothing we can do to prove such a thing.

Get prepared mentally guys because round 2 is happening.

I acknowledge that Robbie may not have lost consciousness but even if he was only resting , one can rest without falling limp as a dishrag. He imitated an unconscious man and paid the consequences. Herb made the right call in my opinion.

 

[sonofjay817]

Robbie could have done a little better with his 'thumbs up'. So fleeting it's hard to see.

 

[JRubin]

Any probability doesn't change it from being an opinion on the outcome. Your slowly starting to get it I think lol.

Sigh, right an opinion, just like yours is only an opinion, difference is your opinion is based off of bias preference rather than logic

 

[fightfan84]

Sigh, right an opinion, just like yours is only an opinion, difference is your opinion is based off of bias preference rather than logic

Me saying we don't know what the outcome would have been makes me bias? But you pre determining what the outcome was going to be makes you non bias?? Think about this one for a second............. Lol unreal man.

 

[fightfan84]

I acknowledge that Robbie may not have lost consciousness but even if he was only resting , one can rest without falling limp as a dishrag. He imitated an unconscious man and paid the consequences. Herb made the right call in my opinion.

Herb doesn't even think he made the right call at this point lol. You are late to the party. If the ref stopped the fight the moment Robbie's arm dropped that would be one thing. It would still have been a bad stoppage, but more justified. Herb didn't stop it there. He checked to see if Robbie was conscious, and Robbie responded to it. That's the issue.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Just on the ‘he was out for a split second and then back” line

Hey, guys, I’ve been late tapping to chokes before, and been unable to stand up for a bit, or even stood up and fell back down. This isn’t damaging, and it isn’t a reason to stop for fighters safety. If he is really out, and the choke is still on, different story.

As far as being out for a split second and that should be the threshold for winning a fight, I think that it’s flawed. Guys are out for a split second when they get hit and they no longer control their legs. That’s why they fall. That’s not when a man is beaten.

I don’t think Lawler was out, but I don’t think it’s the right way to stop a fight.

 

[brownsmith76]

Robbie could have done a little better with his 'thumbs up'. So fleeting it's hard to see.

Yea, he should have held up the thumb for a few seconds longer to make sure Herb got it.

 

[spinitch]

In hindsight Herb could have been more diligent to see if Robbie out. But Herb thought Robbie was out so made his call to be safe. Sucks, easy to critique with replays. Refs should get better tech to help with these dangerous situations. A remote Ref with camera angles and maybe even biometrics are among improvements to help Refs. This replay will help educate Refs going forward and hopefully will check closer next time.

 

[acannxr]

that’s him giving the thumbs up and then putting his hand back on the mat

At least read page 2:

I was being sarcastic .

 

[sutherland]

At this point it really doesn't matter... If he was not out, 99% likely he would of been finished within a few more seconds.

The bulldog choke was fully locked, he was facing out instead of in where he would of had options to escape, only a matter of time before he tapped or went out.

Lol no, just no. Robbie knew it was only a bulldog choke and was waiting for him to blow his arm out and the right time to go out the back door.
Do u even ufc bro???

 

[sutherland]

I’m literally amazed at the amount of people saying he never went out. What’s more is that 95% of people thought he was out in the moment, but still think it was a bad stoppage. “I thought he was out. It was a bad stoppage.” Those do not seem like premises for the same argument.

Cool show the other angle and say he was out

 

[fightfan84]

In hindsight Herb could have been more diligent to see if Robbie out. But Herb thought Robbie was out so made his call to be safe. Sucks, easy to critique with replays. Refs should get better tech to help with these dangerous situations. A remote Ref with camera angles and maybe even biometrics are among improvements to help Refs. This replay will help educate Refs going forward and hopefully will check closer next time.

It's pretty simple though. He lifted Robbie's arm to see if he was conscious . Robbie responded. 99/100 times herb doesn't miss that. He missed this one. That's the issue.

 

[machidafan99]

He is wrong