Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[fightfan84]

What are you saying?? That fighters who are being choked out by Ben just need to go limp, ignore verbal commands by the ref, and sneak a thumbs up?? That way they cant lose??

It sucks that Herb didnt let it go on for longer, but in no way should we take away what Ben did or even downplay it. Robbie was caught in a choke, and the only reason he got out was because of the ref.

The problem is herb lifting Robbie's arm by his wrist. That's not a debate that's a fact. Another fact is Robbie responded by doing 2 things. First pulled his arm away kept it lifted and 2nd gave thumbs up. Your wrong man. There video to show your wrong .actual facts. And for some reason it bugs you sooooo much to be wrong it's getting comical

 

[kflo]

How is this thread still going on?

Lawler was out, Askren noticed this and let off on the choke as Herb stopped it and Robbie woke up (because Askren let go of the choke).

Nobody wanted Lawler's head cracked [cue the Askren watermelon YouTube videos] and we're all thankful it was stopped when it was.

Time to move on to each guys next fight.

Again this is just bullshit. Robbie repositioned his hand almost immediately after he dropped it and Robbie immediately responded to herb lifting his arm before herb stopped it.

Again, even herb acknowledges he fucked up but you can’t?

 

[fightfan84]

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And yet not even Robbie is dumb enough to try and get it overturned. Why?? Because your reasoning is ridiculous.

He doesn't care . Said it's up to his team. His team on the other hand have already stated they are going to look into it .so again. Another thing you are wrong about lol. Man do some research and come back to debate this is getting to easy

 

[JRubin]

Ben said that. Robbie said he wasn’t in trouble. What now? Two fighters stating their own position.

Chiesa also said he wasnt in trouble.
Except we've all seen what happens when a fighter has a rear naked choke tucked in under the chin.

Just because you like to discredit a bulldog choke doesnt make it any less lethal.

Your argument doesnt hold any weight to anyone who has any experience grappling. Sorry bud, maybe you just need to watch a different sport.

 

[kflo]

Chiesa also said he wasnt in trouble.
Except we've all seen what happens when a fighter has a rear naked choke tucked in under the chin.

Just because you like to discredit a bulldog choke doesnt make it any less lethal.

Your argument doesnt hold any weight to anyone who has any experience grappling. Sorry bud, maybe you just need to watch a different sport.

I never discredited the bulldog choke. Just pointing out that putting the words of the fighter as leading evidence isn’t always the best approach. They both have their perspective of what happened. You can’t say one is right and the other wrong based on what we saw. It’s all inconclusive.

 

[fightfan84]

Chiesa also said he wasnt in trouble.
Except we've all seen what happens when a fighter has a rear naked choke tucked in under the chin.

Just because you like to discredit a bulldog choke doesnt make it any less lethal.

Your argument doesnt hold any weight to anyone who has any experience grappling. Sorry bud, maybe you just need to watch a different sport.

Lol you are wrong. There evidence Robbie wasn't out. So are you saying because the nature of the choke it's ok to just end the fight when they did

 

[Okajima]

There are still people in here crying over Robbie’s loss? Haha Jesus Christ.

 

[Crimp_Keeper]

Did you not see the whole video with the angle that shows Robbie moving his arm and hand right after it drops. Your late to the party man that's already been discussed and figured out. His arm dropped but he wasn't out. An unconscious fighter can't move his arm and hand after it drops lol

 

[Crimp_Keeper]

He moves his hand almost immediately

Almost immediately after he awoke from being choked unconscious. You’re arguing with the expert opinion of professional BJJ practitioners. Neither you nor I have the same expertise as them and therefore I’m obliged to agree with their take.

 

[JRubin]

Lol you are wrong. There evidence Robbie wasn't out. So are you saying because the nature of the choke it's ok to just end the fight when they did

Not sure why your continuously putting words into my mouth that I never said.

I never said Herb made the right call, I've repeatedly said the fight should have went on longer.

The place our opinions differ is if the rematch is warranted, and I still dont see any logical reasoning behind it.

1. A rematch will not answer the questions left over from there last bout.

2. In my opinion Robbie is just as much to fault as Herb, he was caught is a submission, while caught in a submission his limb went limp, that is a fact, he didnt respond to verbal commands of the ref.,
The only thing he did while in a submission is give a thumbs up, that the ref missed, and called the fight.

Robbie had several other opportunities to show that he wasn't out, and he failed on all but 1. Sadly the ref missed the 1 he sign he showed that he was still in.

3.Ben didnt make the call, Ben caught him in a submission, we shouldnt downplay that because the ref fucked up and called it early, Robbie was in a tough spot no matter how you spin it.

4.Ben gets nothing from a rematch.

 

[Joe Devola]

when you are choked out your whole body goes limp and not just your arm. havent you guys seen jones vs machida? it was a bullshit ending and the only way to get answers is to have a rematch.

 

[JRubin]

The problem is herb lifting Robbie's arm by his wrist. That's not a debate that's a fact. Another fact is Robbie responded by doing 2 things. First pulled his arm away kept it lifted and 2nd gave thumbs up. Your wrong man. There video to show your wrong .actual facts. And for some reason it bugs you sooooo much to be wrong it's getting comical

I remember in high school wrestling, during my match I thought I was pinning my opponent but didn't realize I had my own shoulders down in the process, when I realized what was happened I flipped over, and watched the ref, who had now turned his head and proceeded dropped his hand.

Even before his hand started to drop my shoulders were off the mat and inward staring at him, yet I still lost.

This stuff happens in competition, this isn't the first time Robbie has been through stuff like this, it's common in sports, very rarely will you ever see an athlete who doesnt have a story about shitty officiating.

Welcome to combat sports.

 

[kflo]

Almost immediately after he awoke from being choked unconscious. You’re arguing with the expert opinion of professional BJJ practitioners. Neither you nor I have the same expertise as them and therefore I’m obliged to agree with their take.

Everyone said it was stopped early as far as I know.

The gracies rushed a vid out per usual that thought he would go out soon.

 

[TheBulletwithWings]

So because you see a thumb on a hand, it's a thumbs up? Lawler merely reached for Askren, then set his hand back down.

Lol he gave a thumbs up in reaction. You guys try so hard to deny reality. Maybe Ben would have got him to sleep but it was cut short.

 

[illegalnature]

So what you are saying is from now on moving forward if askrens gets a hold of someones neck it's pointless for anything else to happen and the ref should just end it immediately because you know what's about to happen anyway. That's a super weird rule to want to bring into the sport.unless you think this is the only time it should be like that, than that's also weird. Which one is it though?

The ref shouldn't just stop it immediately, that was a mistake. But in the chance of a premature stoppage while he has a choke then yea, givem the W its a wrap. Lawler wasn't getting out of that whether herb stopped it or not. He was a total goner.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

That's after his hand drops flat from being out.

Then how is he posting on his legs, why didnt they give out

 

[fightfan84]

Almost immediately after he awoke from being choked unconscious. You’re arguing with the expert opinion of professional BJJ practitioners. Neither you nor I have the same expertise as them and therefore I’m obliged to agree with their take.

Lol there is no arguing with anyone. They are assuming he would have eventually gone out. But they actually agree he didn't go out. The way Robbie arm hits the ground but than instantly repositions it, is proof he wasn't unconscious. There is video out there now to show this

 

[fightfan84]

Not sure why your continuously putting words into my mouth that I never said.

I never said Herb made the right call, I've repeatedly said the fight should have went on longer.

The place our opinions differ is if the rematch is warranted, and I still dont see any logical reasoning behind it.

1. A rematch will not answer the questions left over from there last bout.

2. In my opinion Robbie is just as much to fault as Herb, he was caught is a submission, while caught in a submission his limb went limp, that is a fact, he didnt respond to verbal commands of the ref.,
The only thing he did while in a submission is give a thumbs up, that the ref missed, and called the fight.

Robbie had several other opportunities to show that he wasn't out, and he failed on all but 1. Sadly the ref missed the 1 he sign he showed that he was still in.

3.Ben didnt make the call, Ben caught him in a submission, we shouldnt downplay that because the ref fucked up and called it early, Robbie was in a tough spot no matter how you spin it.

4.Ben gets nothing from a rematch.

Ben gets to show he could actually win the fight in the rematch lol. That's what he gets out of it. The ref made an error. You agree Robbie wasn't unconscious. He didn't tap out and the fight ended for no reason. The result is pending at this point, it was an exciting fight. Why not let them fight it out to see how it actually ends

 

[fightfan84]

I remember in high school wrestling, during my match I thought I was pinning my opponent but didn't realize I had my own shoulders down in the process, when I realized what was happened I flipped over, and watched the ref, who had now turned his head and proceeded dropped his hand.

Even before his hand started to drop my shoulders were off the mat and inward staring at him, yet I still lost.

This stuff happens in competition, this isn't the first time Robbie has been through stuff like this, it's common in sports, very rarely will you ever see an athlete who doesnt have a story about shitty officiating.

Welcome to combat sports.

This isn't high school wrestling man lol the fuck. The ref lifted Robbie's arm and he responded to it. There is no justifying that. The fact you are trying to justify a shitty stoppage is retarded. Stoppages like this ruin MMA. No one should be happy with it .

 

[fightfan84]

The ref shouldn't just stop it immediately, that was a mistake. But in the chance of a premature stoppage while he has a choke then yea, givem the W its a wrap. Lawler wasn't getting out of that whether herb stopped it or not. He was a total goner.

You have no idea if Robbie was getting out or not .Zero. it's an opinion. You don't know where askrens head was at after that beating he took. Your cool with this stoppage why wouldn't you be ok with that being what refs do moving forward? Can't just be this one fight that's acceptable for, that's bias. If your going to do it keep it going moving forward . Make it a new rule in the UFC. Stop fights when an opponent gets a choke hold on the other fighter. Your ok with it here in this fight. Why not make it the new rule