Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[fightfan84]

Regardless if it was pre mature or not, theres not a single person saying Robbie wasnt out who would bet their life that he was going to survive the round if it wasn't stopped.

You can lie to yourselves all you want but fact is askren won, robbie lost and if the fight wasnt stopped when it was askren would have snapped that dudes neck or popped his fucking head off lol was anyone looking at the clock? Do you guys have any idea how long robbie would have had to last in that brutal choke? He would have tapped or went out in the next 15 seconds no doubt. He has ass loads of time to really sink that shit in and crank crank crank

So what you are saying is from now on moving forward if askrens gets a hold of someones neck it's pointless for anything else to happen and the ref should just end it immediately because you know what's about to happen anyway. That's a super weird rule to want to bring into the sport.unless you think this is the only time it should be like that, than that's also weird. Which one is it though?

 

[mkess101]

Your reaching now man lol .Robbie repositioning his hand responding to the refs arm grab and giving the thumbs up. Connect the dots dude . The videos are out there now.

Nah I've seen them. His arm flops down in a way that's not normal for a conscious person. Then it sort of flops forward a few inches. THEN Herb comes in to check and Ben has turned a bit away from the cage, adjusting his grip a little. By the time Herb is checking on Robbie, there's no question that Robbie is conscious and beyond that seemingly fine. His immediate objection shows that WHEN Herb checked on him, he was okay. But I'm talking about when his arm goes from grabbing across Ben's face to just dropping like a dead fish to the mat. There is literally no way you can look at that and think that is how someone that's conscious moves their arm from grabbing across his face to the mat. It just flops down.

I told this story a few times, but in a NAGA tourney in 2011 or 2012 I actually had a teammate get choked out with an arm triangle during a match for a second. The ref didn't see it, and he woke up immediately and started fighting the choke again. He ended up escaping it and winning the match. But he was absolutely out for a second. The point being, Robbie may well have been able to come back and win that fight. But it looked to me like he was out for a second. If Herb didn't KNOW he was out (which it didn't look like he did since instead of instantly stopping the fight, he waited a couple seconds then checked on Robbie---who as I said was okay by that point) then we agree he should NOT have stopped the fight. But that's a separate argument than whether Robbie went out for a second or not. Watching his arm flop down like a dead fish like that, no way is anyone gonna convince me he wasn't likely out for a second or so.

 

[fightfan84]

Nah I've seen them. His arm flops down in a way that's not normal for a conscious person. Then it sort of flops forward a few inches. THEN Herb comes in to check and Ben has turned a bit away from the cage, adjusting his grip a little. By the time Herb is checking on Robbie, there's no question that Robbie is conscious and beyond that seemingly fine. His immediate objection shows that WHEN Herb checked on him, he was okay. But I'm talking about when his arm goes from grabbing across Ben's face to just dropping like a dead fish to the mat. There is literally no way you can look at that and think that is how someone that's conscious moves their arm from grabbing across his face to the mat. It just flops down.

I told this story a few times, but in a NAGA tourney in 2011 or 2012 I actually had a teammate get choked out with an arm triangle during a match for a second. The ref didn't see it, and he woke up immediately and started fighting the choke again. He ended up escaping it and winning the match. But he was absolutely out for a second. The point being, Robbie may well have been able to come back and win that fight. But it looked to me like he was out for a second. If Herb didn't KNOW he was out (which it didn't look like he did since instead of instantly stopping the fight, he waited a couple seconds then checked on Robbie---who as I said was okay by that point) then we agree he should NOT have stopped the fight. But that's a separate argument than whether Robbie went out for a second or not. Watching his arm flop down like a dead fish like that, no way is anyone gonna convince me he wasn't likely out for a second or so.

Yea man that's when I'm talking about To. You can see the arm fall off askrens head hit the mat and Robbie instantly repositions his hand on the mat . That's not what an unconscious person does

 

[Saint John]

Robbie was out. Shut the fuck up and move on with your lives.

 

[Brodels]

Robbie was out, somebody post the gif.

He absolutely was not out. Just because you let your arm drop in the heat of the moment trying to figure out what to do next doesn't mean youryo unconscious. He fucking raised his hand and gave a thumbs up when Herb checked. Yet Herbs dumbass didn't bother watching the arm he checked.

 

[Brodels]

The real question is why Robbie stopped pounding on Ben's face and starting looking up at Herb

 

[fightfan84]

Robbie was out. Shut the fuck up and move on with your lives.

Except he wasn't lol. There's actual video evidence showing he wasnt. Welcome to the debate man. Your clearly far behind. Most have acknowledged he wasn't out and switched their argument to he wasn't going to get out of the choke anyway.

 

[IsNormal]

So what your saying is for now on moving forward. If a fighter gets a choke the ref has the right to just stop it right in that moment because odds are they won't fight it off regardless. No more tapping needed no more going to sleep needed .

Nah. What I said was

the stoppage was early

So obviously I think Herb made a mistake and would've wanted the fight to continue until Lawler was out or tapped.

Was just saying I think that's what would've happened.

 

[VVarhead]

Robbie was out. Shut the fuck up and move on with your lives.

Except he wasn't.

 

[JRubin]

You have zero idea if it was a fight ending submission. Zero just a guess. Your guess doesn't negate what could have happened. Robbie was convinced he was getting out. He was in the fight .

*face palm*

Went over your head.

Bulldog choke is a legit choke that has ended fights before, which makes it a fight ending submission.

There is no question that the bulldog choke was sunk in, that Robbie's arm went limp, he didnt respond to verbal commands from Herb, but because Robbie snuck a thumb up it means he gets to over turn a decision?? Sorry bud but thats not how combat sports work

 

[kflo]

So because you see a thumb on a hand, it's a thumbs up? Lawler merely reached for Askren, then set his hand back down.

And then told herb immediately after that he gave the thumbs up?

and even if he reached for askren, could he do that if he was unconscious?

 

[mkess101]

Yea man that's when I'm talking about To. You can see the arm fall off askrens head hit the mat and Robbie instantly repositions his hand on the mat . That's not what an unconscious person does

See even you said his hand "falls". Someone who's fully conscious doesn't have their hand flop down limply like that. Someone who's right on the fringe of consciousness or "going in and out of consciousness" will have that happen. Whether his hand repositions because of him or because Askren turns him doesn't really matter to me. He literally could have been out just for that second where his arm flops down and then instantly woken up. Blood flow to the brain is tricky. The tiniest adjustment allowing even a trickle can have someone go out and wake right back up.

 

[JRubin]

So what you are saying is from now on moving forward if askrens gets a hold of someones neck it's pointless for anything else to happen and the ref should just end it immediately because you know what's about to happen anyway. That's a super weird rule to want to bring into the sport.unless you think this is the only time it should be like that, than that's also weird. Which one is it though?

What are you saying?? That fighters who are being choked out by Ben just need to go limp, ignore verbal commands by the ref, and sneak a thumbs up?? That way they cant lose??

It sucks that Herb didnt let it go on for longer, but in no way should we take away what Ben did or even downplay it. Robbie was caught in a choke, and the only reason he got out was because of the ref.

 

[JRubin]

See even you said his hand "falls". Someone who's fully conscious doesn't have their hand flop down limply like that. Someone who's right on the fringe of consciousness or "going in and out of consciousness" will have that happen. Whether his hand repositions because of him or because Askren turns him doesn't really matter to me. He literally could have been out just for that second where his arm flops down and then instantly woken up. Blood flow to the brain is tricky. The tiniest adjustment allowing even a trickle can have someone go out and wake right back up.

Ben already said he let up because he though Herb was stopping it, then reapplied the pressure when he realised Herb was just checking on Robbie.

They just like to ignore whatever doesnt fit there bias narrative.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Robbie would have escaped Ben's weak "choke" attempt and given him the beating of a lifetime. Herb saved Ben's life. Ben and his family should have Herb over for dinner to thank him.

 

[fightfan84]

*face palm*

Went over your head.

Bulldog choke is a legit choke that has ended fights before, which makes it a fight ending submission.

There is no question that the bulldog choke was sunk in, that Robbie's arm went limp, he didnt respond to verbal commands from Herb, but because Robbie snuck a thumb up it means he gets to over turn a decision?? Sorry bud but thats not how combat sports work

The ref agreeing that he made a mistake .Robbie responding to the ref checking his consciousness and him moving his hand once it hit the mat is facts he wasn't unconscious . A ref stopping a fight before someone taps or sleeps in a choke making a drastic mistake should be enough to over turn a decision. Doesn't matter what you think could have happened after if it wasn't stopped.

 

[Ying Li]

How is this thread still going on?

Lawler was out, Askren noticed this and let off on the choke as Herb stopped it and Robbie woke up (because Askren let go of the choke).

Nobody wanted Lawler's head cracked [cue the Askren watermelon YouTube videos] and we're all thankful it was stopped when it was.

Time to move on to each guys next fight.

 

[JRubin]

[

The ref agreeing that he made a mistake .Robbie responding to the ref checking his consciousness and him moving his hand once it hit the mat is facts he wasn't unconscious . A ref stopping a fight before someone taps or sleeps in a choke making a drastic mistake should be enough to over turn a decision. Doesn't matter what you think could have happened after if it wasn't stopped.

And yet not even Robbie is dumb enough to try and get it overturned. Why?? Because your reasoning is ridiculous.

 

[kflo]

Ben already said he let up because he though Herb was stopping it, then reapplied the pressure when he realised Herb was just checking on Robbie.

They just like to ignore whatever doesnt fit there bias narrative.

Ben said that. Robbie said he wasn’t in trouble. What now? Two fighters stating their own position.

 

[fightfan84]

See even you said his hand "falls". Someone who's fully conscious doesn't have their hand flop down limply like that. Someone who's right on the fringe of consciousness or "going in and out of consciousness" will have that happen. Whether his hand repositions because of him or because Askren turns him doesn't really matter to me. He literally could have been out just for that second where his arm flops down and then instantly woken up. Blood flow to the brain is tricky. The tiniest adjustment allowing even a trickle can have someone go out and wake right back up.

But his hand supporting his weight and moving after the arm fell is prove thattitndidnt fall because of loss of consciousness that's the point. There's more of an argument of askrens being unconscious and woken back up from the ground and pound with the video out there now.