Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[fightfan84]

That is after Lawler wakes back up, people are trying to ignore when Lawler went out on purpose.

Lol at the end of the gif you can actually see where Robbie repositions his hand on the arm that drops. Clearly not out.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

 

[fightfan84]

It was stopped early. Too bad. Robbie was getting choked out soon.
It’s almost impossible to get out of that position of that choke.
If his body
Was the other way he could.
Literally it’s inescapable especially with a guy like askren in your neck.

To say Robbie was safe and would of been ok is pretty much hilarious if you’re familiar with grappling and fighting.

It’s like saying
The mouse would eventually get out of the mousetrap.

So you think fights should end when you assume the fighter can't get out? Refs should be able to just make that judgment call now? Or is it just this fight because you like one fighter more than the other ????

 

[fightfan84]

Sorry, but I listen to the pros and believe my eyes. No conscious persons arm drops like that, ESPECIALLY, when it was gripping an opponents head.

Did you not see the whole video with the angle that shows Robbie moving his arm and hand right after it drops. Your late to the party man that's already been discussed and figured out. His arm dropped but he wasn't out. An unconscious fighter can't move his arm and hand after it drops lol

 

[fightfan84]

John just shits on anything UFC related nowadays

If that fight had been in Bellator he would be saying it was a great stoppage

Lol that doesn't even make sense. You have a fighter clearly conscious clearly give the thumbs up indicating he was ok to continue and the ref miss it
And this has something to do with big John and the UFC? Take the tin foil hat off man

 

[Cat Biscuits]

It IS possible Lawler went out then came back real quick. That arm drop is pretty suspect.

With that being said, he did give a thumbs up.

This is a tricky situation, one of the trickiest ive seen.

For those of us who are unbiased, its not really clear if it was the right call or not.

I just don't understand the hatred for Askren when it wasn't his fault. Bad call on Herb's part, but I still think Lawler went out for a second before coming back. If Lawler went out at all, Askren won the fight.

Run it back again if it's really necessary, but i'm still more interested in seeing Askren fight other people. It's too bad lots of people around here are UFC shills wanting Askren to fail any way possible. I guess Askren is too much of a genuine funny troll that has their panties in a bunch? He's not cringey like Colby or ultra-douchey like Conor. I'm glad he's here to shake up things in an otherwise boring division.

 

[mkess101]

Did you not see the whole video with the angle that shows Robbie moving his arm and hand right after it drops. Your late to the party man that's already been discussed and figured out. His arm dropped but he wasn't out. An unconscious fighter can't move his arm and hand after it drops lol

If you watch, Ben actually turns his hips at that exact moment. Robbie's arm/hand movement slightly forward actually coincides directly with Askren turning his hips away from the cage.

I honestly don't care. They can rematch, that's good by me. And if Robbie knocks Ben's head into the 8th row I'm good with that too (I like Ben but I've been a Robbie fan forever). I'm just saying the "His hand moved forward" explanation doesn't hold a lot of water.

 

[Death By Samson]

John just shits on anything UFC related nowadays

If that fight had been in Bellator he would be saying it was a great stoppage

He agreed with and defended the handling of the Megan Anderson vs Cat Zingano stoppage (ruling it a TKO instead of a NC).

 

[HanoverFist33]

He was getting choked out whether the fight was stopped at that moment or 10 seconds later. Doesn't matter.

 

[Le Choad]

I guess you Haven't read the scoring rules.

I guess you are blind, retarded, or both. I'd put money on it.

 

[JRubin]

If he paid attention to the fighter he would have seen him wide awake. He didn’t. So he missed it. Like he admits. He wouldn’t have stopped it. He knows it. Why can’t you acknowledge that?

Your entire argument is based off the premise that the bulldog choke is an ineffective choke that does not end fights which is incorrect and has ended several fights.

Robbie was locked in a tight bulldog choke, he never got out of it, and in his own words he was just going to try and wait it out(while playing dead), but had no actual intention of escaping it.

Was it early? Yes, does that mean that Robbie gets to pretend like he wasn't caught In a submission with no way out? No it doesnt

So you think fights should end when you assume the fighter can't get out? Refs should be able to just make that judgment call now? Or is it just this fight because you like one fighter more than the other ????

1.Robbie made no attempt to get out.
2.Robbie went limp which is what Ref's look for when a fighter is in a choke and they have all the right to end it right there.

 

[CasualBot]

That is not true, in the vast majority of chokes and head locks, if you are not actively defending them or moving your body, you are usually fucked. Especially like Robbie was, He can't simply stand up, and he doesn't have much power in that base (it is why ASkren put him there) did yous ee how easily ASkren put him there? He dismantled him and put him there. I truly wish the fight went on so you can see it was going to end anyway.

No implication of "stand up". The escape is removing Askren's base and losing position into side control.

Far from over.

Moving frantically means nothing, including grabbing at a bulldog choke.
Where hips "are" is everything.

 

[CasualBot]

Don't get me wrong, Robbie on his back with Askren in side control is bad, but it isn't over. Assuming a fight is over by a dominant position is ludicrous because that is the whole game behind the sport. How Robbie gets out may not be the same as how Woodley gets out, or Conor, or whoever.

I can say firmly, he had his other hand in a good place to remove Askrens base. Robbie was doing exactly what he said. Askren is full of shit about releasing the choke.
Complete horseshit.

 

[kflo]

Your entire argument is based off the premise that the bulldog choke is an ineffective choke that does not end fights which is incorrect and has ended several fights.

Robbie was locked in a tight bulldog choke, he never got out of it, and in his own words he was just going to try and wait it out(while playing dead), but had no actual intention of escaping it.

Was it early? Yes, does that mean that Robbie gets to pretend like he wasn't caught In a submission with no way out? No it doesnt




1.Robbie made no attempt to get out.
2.Robbie went limp which is what Ref's look for when a fighter is in a choke and they have all the right to end it right there.

That’s not at all the argument. You’re not paying attention at all.

1. Herb didn’t make the decision to stop the fight on him thinking he went limp
2. He therefore checked to see if the fighter was unconscious
3. He didn’t pay attention to the fighters response
4 he admitted such
5 he felt bad
6 knew he fucked up


As to whether he could have got out? Askren needed himself a way to actually finish him and he hadn’t yet figured that out.

 

[fightfan84]

Your entire argument is based off the premise that the bulldog choke is an ineffective choke that does not end fights which is incorrect and has ended several fights.

Robbie was locked in a tight bulldog choke, he never got out of it, and in his own words he was just going to try and wait it out(while playing dead), but had no actual intention of escaping it.

Was it early? Yes, does that mean that Robbie gets to pretend like he wasn't caught In a submission with no way out? No it doesnt




1.Robbie made no attempt to get out.
2.Robbie went limp which is what Ref's look for when a fighter is in a choke and they have all the right to end it right there.

How tight the choke was and what might have happened had the ref not needed up is not the issues the ref messing up is the issue. Anything else is speculation. You can assume Robbie was done anyway but assuming doesn't justify ending an MMA fight .also Robbie's arm fell you can see now with the better angles he adjusted his hand when it hit the mat. Clearly not out at any point in this fight. It's not an argument when there is now video to show this . As well the ref himself agrees it was a mistake. That's what your seeming to miss

 

[fightfan84]

If you watch, Ben actually turns his hips at that exact moment. Robbie's arm/hand movement slightly forward actually coincides directly with Askren turning his hips away from the cage.

I honestly don't care. They can rematch, that's good by me. And if Robbie knocks Ben's head into the 8th row I'm good with that too (I like Ben but I've been a Robbie fan forever). I'm just saying the "His hand moved forward" explanation doesn't hold a lot of water.

It holds way more water than his arm fell limpm now we can see him re position his hand and arn. His hips shifting wouldn't make Robbie's hand adjust the way it does. The physics of it doesn't make sense man. He wasn't out ref fucked up and now we have the benefit of video replay to see it .

 

[VVarhead]

Robbie wasn't out.

 

[mkess101]

It holds way more water than his arm fell limpm now we can see him re position his hand and arn. His hips shifting wouldn't make Robbie's hand adjust the way it does. The physics of it doesn't make sense man. He wasn't out ref fucked up and now we have the benefit of video replay to see it .

Actually in that position Ben turning that direction could drag Robbie's hand forward. The physics absolutely work.

Whatever I hope they rematch and I'll root for Robbie. But I gotta be objective.

 

[JRubin]

How tight the choke was and what might have happened had the ref not needed up is not the issues the ref messing up is the issue. Anything else is speculation. You can assume Robbie was done anyway but assuming doesn't justify ending an MMA fight .also Robbie's arm fell you can see now with the better angles he adjusted his hand when it hit the mat. Clearly not out at any point in this fight. It's not an argument when there is now video to show this . As well the ref himself agrees it was a mistake. That's what your seeming to miss

I'm not assuming he was done, I dont have to because the fight was over, and Ben won.

My position is very clear, Robbie was locked in a choke, to run it back we have to put Robbie back in the same choke, set the clock to 1:40, and let's see what happens, but nobody would ever waste there time and money on watching that and for good reason.

A rematch where they both start off standing is irrelevant and defeats the entire purpose of your argument, could he have gotten out?? Or was he done?? A rematch answers neither of this.

The proper outcome is to give Ben the W and an asterix next to it, and let's move on, Robbie's stock didnt take a hit, and this sets up a potential rematch down the line.

BTW where was the outcry for Chiesa when the same thing happened to him vs Lee??

 

[fightfan84]

Actually in that position Ben turning that direction could drag Robbie's hand forward. The physics absolutely work.

Whatever I hope they rematch and I'll root for Robbie. But I gotta be objective.

You are wrong man. It wouldn't take his hand and move it in the way he repositioned it. Watched the video. It's super clear. I can't even believe with the videos out there that you can't ry and argue that. But also .the ref even acknowledges at this stage the mistake. I'm not quite sure why it's taking others so long