Big John McCarthy weighs in on Askren-Lawler stoppage

[cade187]

"The arm drop" is the new "back and to the left." For my money, Robbie went out there. When/how he came to again is up for discussion, but that he went out right there seems clear cut to me.

I’m literally amazed at the amount of people saying he never went out. What’s more is that 95% of people thought he was out in the moment, but still think it was a bad stoppage. “I thought he was out. It was a bad stoppage.” Those do not seem like premises for the same argument.

 

[Strychnine]

Does it say he was out? Lol...looks like he gave a thumbs up when herb checked his arm there...

That was one weak thumbs up, if it was one.

 

[Shuque]

Wasn’t under the chin so wasn’t a choke. It was a skull crusher. His arms would have given out before he crushed his skull.

Bulldog choke on the chin actually is a blood choke. Also hurts as hell but it didn't look like Lawler was going to tap to pain.

 

[xP]

I think it was a bad stoppage in hindsight but Robbies arm looked limp as fuck. I guess it wasn't, but it really looked it and the refs tell you that if you're in a locked in sub they're going to check for that, Robbie knows this.

I think Askren was on his way to winning the fight but it was still far from a foregone conclusion. Lawler is always dangerous.

 

[Prex32]

why rematch? robbie couldn't finish him and will never be able to do so. will he bring a gun to the rematch? it makes no sense.

 

[Bullitt68]

...right, but Herb ended the fight after he was moving his arm again, not after the arm drop lol

No dispute there. On this point, we'd then have to move to discussing what Ben was doing, whether he stopped squeezing (as hard) when he felt Robbie go/saw Herb coming in, etc. To the arm drop, though...

An incorrect stoppage isn't necessarily a bad stoppage. It looked like he was out so he stopped it, nothing bad about that.

...Barteh put it nicely there. Could Herb have let the fight go? Yes. Should he have let it go? I wish he would've (the less room for debate the better in my book). But I totally understand the stoppage and, given the situation (Robbie stuck in a virtually unescapable position), I by no means consider it an egregious robbery or anything of the sort. Robbie was as fucked as a person getting choked can be this side of being conscious, and he didn't help his cause (as) much (as he could've/should've) once Herb came in.

A disappointing ending but nothing for people to be losing their shit over IMO.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

UFC needs to book Robbie for another fight quickly. It's Robbie's time. I have never seen him look so good, both mentally and especially physically. I'm usually not a big fan of immediate rematches, but would like this one very much. I don't think Askren is a complete mixed martial artist like Robbie is. I find Askren's game very one dimensional. Robbie runs through Ben 9 times out of 10.

Sorry bud. Robbie can't perform better then he did. 9/10 times Askren takes him to wrestling practice and drowns him which is exactly what was going to happen before the stoppage.

 

[Sweater of AV]

BJM knows what's up. Herb made a mistake, it happens. Hopefully they do a rematch.

 

[Yung Dilla]

Lawler went limp for two seconds then gave a thumbs up but by that time herb was calling it off. It's nobodies fault and the right call was made it's that simple.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

'Intelligent defense' doesn't apply to submission holds

This. If it were, riding out a choke should be a stoppage and that would be ridiculous. <45>

 

[Druken_Vovchanchyn]

It could be a lot of reasons....

He could be resting. He could have been playing a game with Askren. You could even speculate he went out for a second. It could have been lots of things. None of that matters.....

If a ref sees an arm go limp from a choke it's his job to check on him immediately. They are instructed and trained to do this just in case they didn't see something right, and a fighter could just be playing around, or they could very well be out....... He did check on him....What he found was Robbie was giving him the thumbs up, and he was perfectly conscious.

The problem is many of you truly don't grasp what you're even arguing. An arm falling in a certain manner isn't an argument for a fight being stopped. It's especially not an argument once a ref has checked on the fighter and the fighter quite clearly showed he was ok....

The bottom line is Herb completely fucked up.

dont tell me that i dont grasp what im arguing, thats dumb as shit lol. can you explain this "playing a game" are you saying he was potentially acting out? that would be a rightful stoppage if hes "playing with ben"

resting? lmao you drop your hand so hard it BOUNCES off the canvas because you are resting? im not the ref im telling you how I FELT lol. I was sick watching my money "rest" its way down to the canvas lol

herb missed the thumbs up. Shit happens. I still think he went out i just have that opinon. Of course if someone pops up right after you stop it you are going to feel horrible. That doesnt mean he couldnt have went out for a moment

my orginal post was just to say....... I have every reason to want to think robbie got fucked. Im a big fan AND i lost money on him. Its easier to say i got fucked than i was wrong about the fight..however i dont feel that way. I feel like ben is tough as fuck and finished robbie. I was simply stating its not only Funky fans that feel that way.

 

[Muay Thai #1]

It IS possible Lawler went out then came back real quick. That arm drop is pretty suspect.

With that being said, he did give a thumbs up.

This is a tricky situation, one of the trickiest ive seen.

For those of us who are unbiased, its not really clear if it was the right call or not.

Well, it is clear that the fight should not have been stopped. The arm dropping was "suspect"

But Herb checked his arm to see if he was out. Robbie pulls his arm back and gives the thumbs up.

It's almost worse that Herb checked Robbie's arm, but for some unknown reason, ignored the fact that Robbie was responding to him

 

[Muay Thai #1]

his arms were not going to tire...

One of the absolute dumbest comments I've read on Sherdog...

That isn't how fighting works

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Name another time a fight has been stopped while a guy is in a submission without tapping or being unconscious

'Intelligent defense' doesn't apply to submission holds

That's happened a bunch of times. I think the most famous one is probably Mir/Sylvia. Big Timmeh was pissed Herb called it, but you could see his arm break in real time. Lol.

 

[xhaydenx]

It's a weird situation. First his hand dropped like he was out cold. I've seen some people saying Robbie was just playing dead and letting his hand drop and intended to wait it out. If this is the case, then that's a stupid move by Robbie. It's the same as tapping and then saying "Oh, no I was only faking. I was fine.".

But, on the other hand, in that gif, you can see that Robbie's hand never goes limp or anything once Herb picks it up to check. Robbie immediately gives the thumbs up. This is a massive fuck up on Herb's part. He didn't even check the hand fully. He started to, then totally forgot to confirm it. If he was watching the hand he would've seen the thumbs up and hand movement from Robbie.

I like Askren and I'm glad he won, but I can't help but feel Robbie got robbed here.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Ben saying he knew Robbie was out when he didn't let go of the sub right away and looked confused <Lmaoo>

 

[Simian Raticus]

I love Robbie Lawler but I've around to thinking it's plausible that he went unconscious momentarily.

 

[snaportap21]

Name another time a fight has been stopped while a guy is in a submission without tapping or being unconscious

'Intelligent defense' doesn't apply to submission holds

Chiesa, Lee. What are your thoughts on that Lee win?

 

[Fire Belly]

Askren has some weird fans, to the point of building a false narrative. Herb checks the arm and it's clear he wasn't out. What happened prior doesn't matter if a fighter gives a thumbs up... he's clearly still in it.

Anyway, Askren looked like shit and a rematch would prove who's the better fighter once and for all.

 

[Final Say]

That's happened a bunch of times. I think the most famous one is probably Mir/Sylvia. Big Timmeh was pissed Herb called it, but you could see his arm break in real time. Lol.

A little bit different lmao