"Big" John McCarthy: B4 MMA the Martial Arts was full of charlatans, fakes & phonies

[FinBJJ]

It's like that rumor that pops up all that time that fighters have to register their hands as deadly weapons, lol.

It's not a rumor, about 50% of the people I went to school with had an uncle who had to do that.

It's not all bullshit. The eye poke, a staple in traditional martial arts seems to work pretty well for Jones same with the oblique kicks.

And if I'm not mistaken a lot of Aikido utilized small joint manipulation. The UFC specifically forbid small joint manipulation. If such techniques are so useless why would UFC go through the trouble of banning them?

Also why are fighters allowed to wear cups and strikes to the groin penalized? A lot of wing chun style kicks are targeted to the crotch and cups negate the effectiveness of these self defense moves.

If you don't know how to fight without poking eyes or kicking groins, you don't know how to fight.

 

[Frank23]

[YT]GeA__6aVkK0[/YT]

 

[Shaddows]

he's 100% right.

People were advertised as whatever belt without any prof. Many just so they could hype them.

Didn't even come from the fighters.
I heard cases where a gym gave a fighter a belt, so they advertised he was a green belt from (the name of the gym).
Other times, it was completely made up by the promotion.

 

[riitzni]

It's not all bullshit. The eye poke, a staple in traditional martial arts seems to work pretty well for Jones same with the oblique kicks.

And if I'm not mistaken a lot of Aikido utilized small joint manipulation. The UFC specifically forbid small joint manipulation. If such techniques are so useless why would UFC go through the trouble of banning them?

Also why are fighters allowed to wear cups and strikes to the groin penalized? A lot of wing chun style kicks are targeted to the crotch and cups negate the effectiveness of these self defense moves.

K I don't how this keeps escaping people but the UFC doesn't make it's own rules anymore. It hasn't been that way since 2001. The NJSAC effectively created the Unified Rules.

 

[RandomUser12]

Funny thing is, McCarthy is a Gracie bumsniff, a family responsible for spewing as much bullshit as anyone in the TMA community ever did. God knows how many people have taken up jiu-jitsu, developed a false sense of security & quickly found out that wrapping your legs around another man isn't necessarily the best form of defence off of the mats.

 

[Arkain2K]

The UFC has brought douche bags out of the wood work. That is probably one of the worst things. Also the caged environment doesn't make the sport look good nor will it ever.

I do agree with the huckster and bullshit stories. One of my sensei's even said to me once that if you have a black belt in judo you can't get a firearms licence, lol.

That's the real reason why Our Lady of Armbars is "The World's Most Dangerous Unarmed Woman".

 

[kurtwpg]

I think Big John is right. I have always enjoyed his refereeing style. When I was growing up before MMA was major , lots of snake oil salesmen were claiming how they could punch a hole through a man's chest, that they couldn't die, that their style was a complete style and couldn't lose, no touch ko, telepathy, levitation,etc. You saw lots of these people in Blackbelt magazines, Ashida Kim, rip offs or lessons that didn't work, lots of guesswork for the average person who just wanted self defense. Now we can see what works and these snake oil people, rip off artists are going away. The mystique of martial arts has gone away but we now can see martial arts for what it is and not what others claim it to be.

 

[Toxxus]

Big John is 100% correct. I was into all manner of martial arts in the 80s and 90s. It was chock full of complete lying sacks of shit.

Mystical powers, sensing your chi, ex-special forces (who had never actually been in the military) and on and on.

I even joined a school that had a complete BS origin (made up Japanese sounding name) that had been founded by an ex-bouncer. They stole and mixed from everything they knew about and it turned out to be a reasonably good self-defense oriented set of skills.

The UFC early era events were very much style vs style (a successor to the old Gracie dojo challenges) and proved in the context of 1v1 fights that grappling was a very important skill to have.

The evolution of MMA over the last 20+ years has basically proven that a mix of grappling and striking skills is essential, but must be matched with durability and very high levels of fitness to be successful.

Part of the reason the bullshit arts succeeded so long was that the practitioners were in so much better physical shape than average people that even with ineffective techniques and rigid styles they could still whoop most of the asses they came across.

When it comes to the one-touch knockout and projecting your chi knockdowns I don't even know what to say. It seems to legitimize group hypnosis and I can't comprehend how people buy into that shit ( I say while believing a jewish carpenter is actually God and saved the world from sin...).

 

[Strikes Again]

Yep. I agree.

 

[Joe Mama]

Your dim mak is no good here.

 

[Bad Romance]

It's not a rumor, about 50% of the people I went to school with had an uncle who had to do that.



If you don't know how to fight without poking eyes or kicking groins, you don't know how to fight.

Strikes to the eyes, throat and balls are still your best bet against Mark Hunt in a dark alley. It may not be much but it's still better than nothing. What else are you going to do?..."fight" him by circling around the pavement trying to kickbox with him? Unleash that 1-2 combo with a finishing low roundhouse kick to his thigh. Or better yet put him in an armbar while his friends patiently wait their turn American Ninja style.

 

[Son of Werdum]

Strikes to the eyes, throat and balls are still your best bet against Mark Hunt in a dark alley. It may not be much but it's still better than nothing. What else are you going to do?..."fight" him by circling around the pavement trying to kickbox with him? Unleash that 1-2 combo with a finishing low roundhouse kick to his thigh. Or better yet put him in an armbar while his friends patiently wait their turn American Ninja style.

The problem with this reasoning is that it assumes every confrontation, or even physical confrontation, is a fight to the death. This can be very dangerous as it can escalate a minor ass beating to a full blown brutalizing. If you are totally overmatched and obviously about to get your ass kicked by a much stonger, better fighter the last thing you want to do is try to maim them. I guess if you were trapped against a better opponent who was obviously trying to use lethal force against you, but the vast majority of people will never be in a situation like that.

Bas Rutten said something similar on JRE about people saying they would bite the leg in an arm bar. It will just piss off the BJJ guy and rather than manhandling you on the ground for a bit he snaps your arm out of anger of being bit.

The vast majority of physical confrontations you need to defend yourself in are not 5-1 life-or-death gang assaults with weapons, they are petty drunken shoving matches and people getting in each others faces. You don't gouge some drunk assholes eyes out because they come up to you shoving you in a bar. If you did that you would be in jail.

 

[The Reed]

Funny thing is, McCarthy is a Gracie bumsniff, a family responsible for spewing as much bullshit as anyone in the TMA community ever did. God knows how many people have taken up jiu-jitsu, developed a false sense of security & quickly found out that wrapping your legs around another man isn't necessarily the best form of defence off of the mats.

I don't get what you're saying here, were those Gracie street fight videos faked or something?

BJJ actually works as a viable way to control and stop the average person without really hurting them. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging here or a 'badass' but about a year ago I was randomly attacked by some asshole on the street, if I didn't have any training I probably would have been beaten to a bloody pulp. However since I knew what I was doing I was able to defend myself and stop the attacker(and also hurt him because I'm a bit of a dick).

With that all said if someone holds a gun or knife to you and says "hand over your wallet", I suggest handing that wallet over, however using BJJ sure beats busting out the old monkey claw or yellow bamboo screams.

 

[Uber_Noober]

The next era of MMA will be spontanious fights in casinos.

 

[hendrixchild419]

What is considered "before MMA"? Bruce Lee? Norris? Inoki? Pre UFC? Pre-Pancrease? Pre-Kickboxing?

Let's be honest Big John was trolling.

 

[The Reed]

Strikes to the eyes, throat and balls are still your best bet against Mark Hunt in a dark alley. It may not be much but it's still better than nothing. What else are you going to do?..."fight" him by circling around the pavement trying to kickbox with him? Unleash that 1-2 combo with a finishing low roundhouse kick to his thigh. Or better yet put him in an armbar while his friends patiently wait their turn American Ninja style.

The thing is anyone can strike to the eyes, throat or balls which includes anyone trained in BJJ, wrestling or striking art. There's really not much skill or technique to those kind of moves which is another reason they're outlawed. In that situation I'd rather be a mediocre kickboxer than the worlds greatest Aikido or Wing Chun guy because even still theres nothing stopping me from poking Hunt in the eye or kicking him in the balls while having some knowledge of what he might do. However I'm fucked either way unless I run but with kickboxing knowledge I'm less likely to be fucked.

 

[Thorgrim]

It's like that rumor that pops up all that time that fighters have to register their hands as deadly weapons, lol.[/QUOTE]

Oh god. I spoke to a lady once who said her husband had to do that. I laughed and said "no he didn't" she insisted that he did so then I said "ask him where he went to register this and ask to see the document" she just looked dumbfounded as in "I never thought of that".

 

[Bad Romance]

The problem with this reasoning is that it assumes every confrontation, or even physical confrontation, is a fight to the death. This can be very dangerous as it can escalate a minor ass beating to a full blown brutalizing. If you are totally overmatched and obviously about to get your ass kicked by a much stonger, better fighter the last thing you want to do is try to maim them. I guess if you were trapped against a better opponent who was obviously trying to use lethal force against you, but the vast majority of people will never be in a situation like that.

Bas Rutten said something similar on JRE about people saying they would bite the leg in an arm bar. It will just piss off the BJJ guy and rather than manhandling you on the ground for a bit he snaps your arm out of anger of being bit.

The vast majority of physical confrontations you need to defend yourself in are not 5-1 life-or-death gang assaults with weapons, they are petty drunken shoving matches and people getting in each others faces. You don't gouge some drunk assholes eyes out because they come up to you shoving you in a bar. If you did that you would be in jail.

"Traditional martial arts" were designed in a time where fights to the deaths are more of a possibility modern times. Like having to fight of bandits in the woods or going hand to hand with a downed Mongol warrior. For some reason I just can't imagine fights like that looking like a kickboxing match. The more I think about it the more I think tmas are similar to the women's self defense courses we have now or the military martial arts. The techniques are designed to targets vital areas and incapacitate the attacker as quickly as possible. And as far a Asian martial arts are concerned fight techniques are often paired with character development to negate as much as possible the occasional asshole student who goes around maiming everyone over minor confrontations.

The thing is anyone can strike to the eyes, throat or balls which includes anyone trained in BJJ, wrestling or striking art. There's really not much skill or technique to those kind of moves which is another reason they're outlawed. In that situation I'd rather be a mediocre kickboxer than the worlds greatest Aikido or Wing Chun guy because even still theres nothing stopping me from poking Hunt in the eye or kicking him in the balls while having some knowledge of what he might do. However I'm fucked either way unless I run but with kickboxing knowledge I'm less likely to be fucked.

To the casual observer those techniques might appear low skill similar to how boxing can look super basic and easy with it's 4 punch repertoire. Of course we know that isn't the case at all. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen tmas don't just employ the stereotypical soccer kicks to the nuts or finger jabs to the eyes or throat. They have those but from what I've seen a lot of it some kind of strike to create an opening transitioning immediately to a multi point grappling attack like a punch to the face turned face grab/eye gouge with the other hand grabbing the collar bone and inside stomp to the opponents side of the knee as sort of a takedown. If there is a fault then such techniques err on the side of being way too complicated rather than being too simple. Interestingly enough years ago back in college an ex Marine classmate showed the fight techniques they trained and they do look a lot more similar to tma/self defense courses than mma stuff. Maybe it could just be a case of different styles being designed for and working in different situations?

 

[tigerclawattack]

ehh me personally i feel like a little fairy ********* whenever i had to do shadowboxing. forms make me feel like a badass. anyone with half a brain knows its about the individual. if we are going to go throwing stones, lets not pretend the guys fighting even in the ufc right now are exactly greatly skilled and truly the best of the best. i always enjoyed tma because i find it fun and cool and i guarantee i could absolutely demolish a great majority of people who train bjj, mt, boxing and think other styles are not good. do i want to step into mma and cut weight and fight for no money, no i dont. others have though.

 

[RandomUser12]

I don't get what you're saying here, were those Gracie street fight videos faked or something?

BJJ actually works as a viable way to control and stop the average person without really hurting them. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging here or a 'badass' but about a year ago I was randomly attacked by some asshole on the street, if I didn't have any training I probably would have been beaten to a bloody pulp. However since I knew what I was doing I was able to defend myself and stop the attacker(and also hurt him because I'm a bit of a dick).

With that all said if someone holds a gun or knife to you and says "hand over your wallet", I suggest handing that wallet over, however using BJJ sure beats busting out the old monkey claw or yellow bamboo screams.

I'm saying the Gracie's are notorious propagandists with a product to sell.

And if I wanted to hear about fantasy street fights, I'd go buy one of Bas Rutten's instructional DVD's.