Best second place finisher, Cormier or Crocop.

JustOnce

JustOnce

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If it wasn't for a guy named Sanderson, possibly greatest collegiate wrestler of all time, Cormier would've won a first place in NCAA championship in wrestling. He didn't.

If it wasn't for a guy named Ernesto Hoost, Greatest heavyweight striker of all time, Crocop would've become a K-1 champion.
He fell short of it.


If it wasn't for a guy named Jon Jones, Greatest Light-heavyweight fighter of all time, maybe greatest fighter of all time, Cormier would still be the UFC LHW champion of the world. He got beat at his own game, then got knocked the fack out.

If it wasn't for a guy named Fedor, Great Heavyweight fighter of all time and in most fans' minds Great Fighter of all time period, Crocop would've become the PRIDE HW Champion of the world. He also got beat at his own game.



In my opinion, it's Crocop. I believe in their respective fields, Hoost is more accomplished and greater than Sanderson, when you look at wrestling competition as a whole internationally. On top of that, Crocop slightly edges out Cormier in terms of their credentials in their primary field of expertise. In MMA, Crocop has beaten better competition in MMA before he burned out so far, and in my opinion, Fedor is still greatest fighter of all time, though Jon Jones might be more skilled and better than Fedor with his reach, wrestling and all around skill set, only fighter about whom I would say that so far.
 
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JustOnce said:
If it wasn't for a guy named Sanderson, possibly greatest collegiate wrestler of all time, Cormier would've won a first place in NCAA championship in wrestling. He didn't.

If it wasn't for a guy named Ernesto Hoost, Greatest heavyweight striker of all time, Crocop would've become a K-1 champion.
He fell short of it.


If it wasn't for a guy named Jon Jones, Greatest Light-heavyweight fighter of all time, maybe greatest fighter of all time, Cormier would've become a UFC LHW champion of the world. He got beat at his own game.

If it wasn't for a guy named Fedor, Great Heavyweight fighter of all time and in most fans' minds Great Fighter of all time period, Crocop would've become the PRIDE HW Champion of the world. He also got beat at his own game.



In my opinion, it's Crocop. I believe in their respective fields, Hoost is more accomplished and greater than Sanderson, when you look at wrestling competition as a whole internationally. On top of that, Crocop slightly edges out Cormier in terms of their credentials in their primary field of expertise. In MMA, Crocop has beaten better competition in MMA before he burned out so far, and in my opinion, Fedor is still greatest fighter of all time, though Jon Jones might be more skilled than Fedor.
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You can make the same argument for Rich Franklin if it wasn't for Anderson Silva.

Those 2 brutal beatings really Fucked him up and he was never the same after.
 
Cro Cop's fight with Fedor was very similar to Cormier's fight with Jones, no matter how Jones fans have spun this into an "utter humiliation"

I'd go with Cro Cop though. He had some blemishes but seemed to be the man to best Fedor.
 
Mikeyz said:
You can make the same argument for Rich Franklin if it wasn't for Anderson Silva.
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No you can't. Rich is possibly the most overrated and underrated fighter of all time simultaneously. His resume was not that impressive prior to beating Anderson.
 
Mikeyz said:
You can make the same argument for Rich Franklin if it wasn't for Anderson Silva.

Those 2 brutal beatings really Fucked him up and he was never the same after.
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Difference is that, I would like to point out, both aforementioned fighters competed at high level in their respective sports and lost to possible goat in their field( for Cormier, limited to folk wrestling)

I don't think Anderson Silva belongs in the same pedestal as Sanderson,Hoost, Fedor or Jon Jones though
 
If there were not Fedor, Crocop would still lose to Minotauro.
 
Da Speeit said:
No you can't. Rich is possibly the most overrated and underrated fighter of all time simultaneously. His resume was not that impressive prior to beating Anderson.
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Yeah, but look at Silva's first couple of title defenses.

Hendo (who Rich arguably beat, but got hosed in that decision) Cote, Leites, Maia and then Sonnen.

I think Rich would have gotten to Sonnen before he finally lost and it wouldn't have been in devastating fashion. it would just be from Sonnen taking him down over and over again.
 
Mikeyz said:
Yeah, but look at Silva's first couple of title defenses.

Hendo (who Rich arguably beat, but got hosed in that decision) Cote, Leites, Maia and then Sonnen.

I think Rich would have gotten to Sonnen before he finally lost and it wouldn't have been in devastating fashion. it would just be from Sonnen taking him down over and over again.
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Rich beats Sonnen. NOBODY CARED ABOUT Sonnen. In my opinion, biggest cinderella story helped by Magic Mouth. I still remember thinking wow this wrestler guy doesn't really belong here when he got smashed by Maia.
 
I agree with you.

Origami said:
If there were not Fedor, Crocop would still lose to Minotauro.
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Who knows what would've happen in 06.

I believe nobody would stop CC that night.
 
Mikeyz said:
You can make the same argument for Rich Franklin if it wasn't for Anderson Silva.

Those 2 brutal beatings really Fucked him up and he was never the same after.
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Well you could make this argument really for anybody who's lost to a champion, am I Right? but I Do agree with you Anderson was Rich's kryptonite.
 
I don't know man, Ernesto Hoost was a complete savage but Cael Sanderson was a different mythical animal altogether,like a friggin' unicorn or some shit. 159-0...'nuff said

Also, something tells me we haven't seen the last of Cormier. Between the very close fight that he and Jones had (sorry 4 out of 5 close rounds is a close fight, fan boys), Jones pissin' swank for yayo and his highly suspicious T/E ratio, something tells me we may see a very different 2nd fight if Jones is proven to produce testosterone at a frequency that even remotely resembles a man. Call me jaded, skeptical, a product of the 21st century, but I have seen too many Lance Armstrongs,Mark McGwires and Barry Bonds to believe a human can be so much more dominant than the field, for such a long period of time.

RE Franklin: I'd put Franklin in the same class as Kenflo. Both didn't have the dual sports greatness that CC and Cormier have had but were nonetheless the absolute 2nd best in the world.
 
K1MMA said:
I agree with you.



Who knows what would've happen in 06.

I believe nobody would stop CC that night.
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not so hard to look unstoppable not fighting any actual hws the whole tournament except for exhausted josh in final

mirko was never really 2nd place because nog kept winning and mirko was given scraps en route to fedor,coveniently never put against nog again.
 
HHJ said:
not so hard to look unstoppable not fighting any actual hws the whole tournament except for exhausted josh in final

mirko was never really 2nd place because nog kept winning and mirko was given scraps en route to fedor,coveniently never put against nog again.
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Funny you say CC didn't fight HWs at GP 06, when the fact is everybody else was heavier than him that night.

There was also a 1 round before the Finals, where he faced Yoshida and both were at the same weight.

CC was a tiny HW who could've gone to LHW no problem btw.

''Scraps'' he fought between Nogueira and Fedor:

Josh Barnett
Mark Coleman
Alexander Emelianenko
Kevin Randleman x2
Maybe I could also mention the giant Ron Waterman who was 10–1 at the time
 
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Chad Mendes :D, but probably Cro Cop.
 
Did anyone see how bad Nog was getting beaten by Mirko before the armbar?
Nog was literally saved by the bell in the first round.
That doesn't show up in Fight Finder or Wiki though...
 
We will see. Mirko's second place curse turned his career into pewp. Hopefully DC doesn't start getting KO'd by Branden Schuab.
 
John Wilde said:
Did anyone see how bad Nog was getting beaten by Mirko before the armbar?
Nog was literally saved by the bell in the first round.
That doesn't show up in Fight Finder or Wiki though...
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Which is why record is all that matters, period. Context matters, to a point, but records are more important. Nobody in 5 years will care that Jones loss to hamil is a DQ, he can't be called undefeated. Nobody cares if Sonnen/Silva I was one-sided, they only see the result. Nobody cares if Condit fought sloppy and ran away from Nick Diaz all fight, they only see the record that Condit won.

Context matters when talking to "real fans" in the short term, record is all that really matters.
 
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