Best Rocky "Villain"

[Philo-Publius]

Apollo Creed because he was the only one that was a multidimensional character.

Tommy Gunn and Viktor Drago (who I have now added for good measure) were both complex characters in their own right.

 

[Midnighter]

I never understood how anyone even passingly familiar with boxing could watch these movies and not just hate them/laugh at them. Just look at the gifs. It's cartoonishly bad. Like...it's somehow less realistic fighting than action movies whose fight scenes aren't meant to take place in a sanctioned sporting event.

Because they're enjoyable stories.

 

[Slick_36]

I never understood how anyone even passingly familiar with boxing could watch these movies and not just hate them/laugh at them. Just look at the gifs. It's cartoonishly bad. Like...it's somehow less realistic fighting than action movies whose fight scenes aren't meant to take place in a sanctioned sporting event.

The first two movies are absolute classics. It's not about the action at all. The first as a standalone is damn near perfect, the second is a bit more traditional Hollywood but still an amazing film and benefits from building on such a good original, and after that they become cartoonish. The first two are completely different than the rest and are 100% worth watching, even if you're not a boxing fan. The original won an Oscar for a reason.

 

[Slick_36]

Depends on what best means.

Creed has the most depth, is the most intelligent, the most charming, and sets Rocky up to become the Italian Stallion. Only drawback is he's basically just Ali which is less than original.

Clubber is vicious, confident, hungry, beat all the top contenders, and has a truly unique identity between his appearance and speech. Not to mention he's right about Rocko and knocks him out, something no one else could do. He goes out like a chump though, which showed that it was really just Rocky beating himself in the first fight.

Drago is the most intimidating by far. A cold killer with an evil empire behind him. Coolest quotes, biggest danger, just the ultimate villain. He isn't very active as a participant in the story though, he just sort of lets others control him like a puppet which works for the story but it takes away some villain points.

Gunn is the slimiest. The movie is a dumpster fire and we don't get a true fight. He gets the benefit of having an actual story arch with character progression like Creed, but the story is uninspired and poorly told. He would have been a better villain if the movie itself was better, there was potential.

Dixon was the definition of meh. He was pretty reasonably annoyed to even have people consider the fight anything other than a first round knockout, so not really evil but a world champ with respect for himself, then fails to even beat the 60 year old, one eyed, brain damaged guy with nearly 25 years of ring rust.

I didn't watch the Creed movies yet. I plan to.

I would say from an artistic standpoint that Creed is the best, Drago is the best as an obstacle for Rocky to overcome, and Clubber is a hybrid with traits of the other two, dangerous in mind and power, hungry, and actively seeking to hurt Rocky. I enjoy Creed as a character more, I enjoy Drago as a villain the most, and Clubber is the coolest.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Depends on what best means.

Creed has the most depth, is the most intelligent, the most charming, and sets Rocky up to become the Italian Stallion. Only drawback is he's basically just Ali which is less than original.

Clubber is vicious, confident, hungry, beat all the top contenders, and has a truly unique identity between his appearance and speech. Not to mention he's right about Rocko and knocks him out, something no one else could do. He goes out like a chump though, which showed that it was really just Rocky beating himself in the first fight.

Drago is the most intimidating by far. A cold killer with an evil empire behind him. Coolest quotes, biggest danger, just the ultimate villain. He isn't very active as a participant in the story though, he just sort of lets others control him like a puppet which works for the story but it takes away some villain points.

Gunn is the slimiest. The movie is a dumpster fire and we don't get a true fight. He gets the benefit of having an actual story arch with character progression like Creed, but the story is uninspired and poorly told. He would have been a better villain if the movie itself was better, there was potential.

Dixon was the definition of meh. He was pretty reasonably annoyed to even have people consider the fight anything other than a first round knockout, so not really evil but a world champ with respect for himself, then fails to even beat the 60 year old, one eyed, brain damaged guy with nearly 25 years of ring rust.

I didn't watch the Creed movies yet. I plan to.

I would say from an artistic standpoint that Creed is the best, Drago is the best as an obstacle for Rocky to overcome, and Clubber is a hybrid with traits of the other two, dangerous in mind and power, hungry, and actively seeking to hurt Rocky. I enjoy Creed as a character more, I enjoy Drago as a villain the most, and Clubber is the coolest.

It's totally in the eye of the beholder. For me, it was Tommy Gunn because Tommy Morrison did such a great job of transitioning from a character you kind of sympathized with on some level to a total treacherous douche. I think Tommy Morrison, and Rocky V in general, get a lot of undue criticism. There was more depth to that story line than the other prior sequels, and the story was totally believable based on how the boxing industry was in those days.

 

[Slick_36]

It's totally in the eye of the beholder. For me, it was Tommy Gunn because Tommy Morrison did such a great job of transitioning from a character you kind of sympathized with on some level to a total treacherous douche. I think Tommy Morrison, and Rocky V in general, get a lot of undue criticism. There more depth to that story line than the other prior sequels, and the story was totally believable based on how the boxing industry was in those days.

Just horribly executed. Thinking it over I had to give Gunn more credit than I expected, his character was pretty interesting on paper. The movie was just unfocused, forced, and rushed. The ending was pretty anticlimactic and really didn't make any sense. If it was handled with the care of the first two, it had the potential to be one of the best, the ideas were there.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I was gonna say the writer of Rocky V but then found out that was Stallone.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Just horribly executed. Thinking it over I had to give Gunn more credit than I expected, his character was pretty interesting on paper. The movie was just unfocused, forced, and rushed. The ending was pretty anticlimactic and really didn't make any sense. If it was handled with the care of the first two, it had the potential to be one of the best, the ideas were there.

That perspective is common, but I don't understand it. The sequence of events in that film was pretty clear and believable to me. The acting performances were well executed. The jabs at Don King were funny. My only complaint is the end fight sequence. Rocky basically lost the fight before he won it.

I think Rocky III was easily the weakest film in the franchise. Much of the film, particularly Rocky's slump, was over-dramatized, and the death in the film was a cheap and easy way to tug on people's heart strings.

 

[Slick_36]

That perspective is common, but I don't understand it. The sequence of events in that film was pretty clear and believable to me. The acting performances were well executed. The jabs at Don King were funny. My only complaint is the end fight sequence. Rocky basically lost the fight before he won it.

I think Rocky III was easily the weakest film in the franchise. Much of the film, particularly Rocky's slump, was over-dramatized, and the death in the film was a cheap and easy way to tug on people's heart strings.

Yeah III went full Hollywood and tried to be serious and over the top without commiting to either. It's a good movie I think but just ends up feeling less than the others when you compare them.

It's been a long time since I've seen it so I can't rip in to it too much. The biggest problem was that the movie built around him not needing violence to solve his problems, he was supposed to be moving past it. Boxing was no longer his identity and he was taking a higher road outside of the ring. They couldn't commit though because it's Rocky and it MUST have a climactic fight scene, so with one eye and brain damage, he easily defeats the champion of the world that he trained.

It really shined a light on how boring Rocky became as a character. In the original he was literally a retired never was bum, he just wanted to hang with the champ, winning didn't matter. He just wanted to survive. In the second he has new confidence but a huge weakness in his eye, he overcomes all odds to defeat the aging champ based on heart alone. After that he becomes a monster with no weakness, knocking out everyone. By V he just becomes Superman and doesn't even need to train anymore, he just wins because he's Rocky.

As a follow up to IV, it was mundane and had no real stakes. Felt like an after school special. Doesn't come close to the originals because the ending completely betrays the theme and just lacks the charm those movies had. He's no longer the underdog we root for, but the unstoppable champion we grow tired of seeing.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Yeah III went full Hollywood and tried to be serious and over the top without commiting to either. It's a good movie I think but just ends up feeling less than the others when you compare them.

It's been a long time since I've seen it so I can't rip in to it too much. The biggest problem was that the movie built around him not needing violence to solve his problems, he was supposed to be moving past it. Boxing was no longer his identity and he was taking a higher road outside of the ring. They couldn't commit though because it's Rocky and it MUST have a climactic fight scene, so with one eye and brain damage, he easily defeats the champion of the world that he trained.

It really shined a light on how boring Rocky became as a character. In the original he was literally a retired never was bum, he just wanted to hang with the champ, winning didn't matter. He just wanted to survive. In the second he has new confidence but a huge weakness in his eye, he overcomes all odds to defeat the aging champ based on heart alone. After that he becomes a monster with no weakness, knocking out everyone. By V he just becomes Superman and doesn't even need to train anymore, he just wins because he's Rocky.

As a follow up to IV, it was mundane and had no real stakes. Felt like an after school special. Doesn't come close to the originals because the ending completely betrays the theme and just lacks the charm those movies had. He's no longer the underdog we root for, but the unstoppable champion we grow tired of seeing.

He was still the underdog in V due to his age and the brain damage you referenced. If you watch the end fight again, it was not won without adversity.

 

[Woodstock99]

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