Elections Bernard Sanders doesn't believe in lubrication

[terrapin]

What am I wrong about?

If you're expecting the Dems to go socialist I wouldn't hold my breathe.

We're already a mix of capitalism with some socialist policies, but capitalism has too much power through bribery and all kinds of other levers. So what we need are some serious checks on that capitalism.

We need to get money completely out of politics. We need to stop pretending corporations are people. Publicly funded elections is the only way to go.

We need to get universal healthcare for every single citizen.

We need to continue to support unions in every way possible and we need to stop price gouging when/as it happens not 4 years after it's taken thousands of dollars out of every American's pocket.

We need a federally guaranteed livable minimum wage.


And lastly, we need a person who actually believes in all of this in their bones and feels some fire about it and doesn't just sort of milk toast their way through talking about it because that isn't landing.


The Democratic party has to move away from mostly serving the upper class and the upper middle class and get right back down to serving the average American person and those people need to feel that that's true
not just hear that it's true.

Ever since Bill Clinton, the Democratic party has been moving away from the average Joe and you can't fix that many years of built up tension and resentment with half measures.

The Democratic party needs to make a complete turn.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Ok I'm not wrong it's everybody else meme guy

People can feel and vote how they want, that's the point of living in a free country. But I don't have to validate your feelings my guy.

And I didn't give you feelings I gave you observations from what life has looked like through my eyes during this administration

You literally said this:

You can tell me I'm wrong if you want to , but the results of this election makes me feel like I am correct.

Like I said you have a right to feel how you want but citing your feelings to me isn't convincing.

Kamala Harris got her ass whipped because people are not buying the bullshit you/they are telling them and rather than admit it and look for a solution it sounds like you wanna double down. Telling people how great the economy and recovery is going while they slide closer and closer to poverty is not a winner.

My feelings didn't cause that red wave. This administration's failures did.

I've already said that inflation was the primary reason why she lost so idk what you want from me. And yeah I did propose a solution. Next time we have an economic crisis set orthodox economics aside and avoid inflation at all costs even if it means a slower recovery and more unemployment because even if you power through the recession with ambitious stimulus and avoid a hard landing from inflation you'll still get voted out. Politically speaking its better to have lingering unemployment because it concentrates the pain in the unemployed whereas inflation affects everyone and better yet unemployment affects the young and the working class more who tend to be less reliable voters. Of course that's quite an unfortunate lesson to learn but that makes more sense than whatever you're on about.

The logic people like you are deploying here would be like saying that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because the American public voted in favor of Bush in 2004. Elections have nothing to do with matters of facts but rather voter sentiment. Surprised I have to explain that but oh well.

We're already a mix of capitalism with some socialist policies, but capitalism has too much power through bribery and all kinds of other levers. So what we need are some serious checks on that capitalism.

We need to get money completely out of politics. We need to stop pretending corporations are people. Publicly funded elections is the only way to go.

We need to get universal healthcare for every single citizen.

We need to continue to support unions in every way possible and we need to stop price gouging when/as it happens not 4 years after it's taken thousands of dollars out of every American's pocket.

We need a federally guaranteed livable minimum wage.


And lastly, we need a person who actually believes in all of this in their bones and feels some fire about it and doesn't just sort of milk toast their way through talking about it because that isn't landing.


The Democratic party has to move away from mostly serving the upper class and the upper middle class and get right back down to serving the average American person and those people need to feel that that's true
not just hear that it's true.

Ever since Bill Clinton, the Democratic party has been moving away from the average Joe and you can't fix that many years of built up tension and resentment with half measures.

The Democratic party needs to make a complete turn.

I think you're overcomplicating all this. Trump got voted out of office in 2020 because of COVID and the Dems got voted out now because of post-COVID inflation, its probably just as simple as that.

 

[terrapin]

People can feel and vote how they want, that's the point of living in a free country. But I don't have to validate your feelings my guy.

You literally said this:

Like I said you have a right to feel how you want but citing your feelings to me isn't convincing.

I've already said that inflation was the primary reason why she lost so idk what you want from me. And yeah I did propose a solution. Next time we have an economic crisis set orthodox economics aside and avoid inflation at all costs even if it means a slower recovery and more unemployment because even if you power through the recession with ambitious stimulus and avoid a hard landing from inflation you'll still get voted out. Politically speaking its better to have lingering unemployment because it concentrates the pain in the unemployed whereas inflation affects everyone and better yet unemployment affects the young and the working class more who tend to be less reliable voters. Of course that's quite an unfortunate lesson to learn but that makes more sense than whatever you're on about.

The logic people like you are deploying here would be like saying that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction because the American public voted in favor of Bush in 2004. Elections have nothing to do with matters of facts but rather voter sentiment. Surprised I have to explain that but oh well.

I think you're overcomplicating all this. Trump got voted out of office in 2020 because of COVID and the Dems got voted out now because of post-COVID inflation, its probably just as simple as that.

That's incredibly naive and I think you're smarter than that, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just know that I see you as being as much of the problem as maga people.

you are equally confused.

But I'm not going to argue about any of this stuff anymore.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's incredibly naive and I think you're smarter than that, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just know that I see you as being as much of the problem as maga people.

you are equally confused.

But I'm not going to argue about any of this stuff anymore.

That's pretty mean and unwarranted IMO.

Idk what I'm saying here that is so controversial tbh.

 

[terrapin]

That's pretty mean and unwarranted IMO.

Idk what I'm saying here that is so controversial tbh.

No, it's not mean it's true. It's not mean, I don't feel the slightest bit of anger. It's true.

 

[Islam Imamate]

No, it's not mean it's true. It's not mean, I don't feel the slightest bit of anger. It's true.

I don't agree but okay.

 

[terrapin]

From the looks of things from what I've watched over the last few days at least some liberals are even questionable/faltering on social issues. I agree about liberal and conservative politicians.

As long as both parties here are beholden to corporate interest there will be a continual seesaw. I think I'm done voting for presidential candidates unless I see a significant shift away from corporate interest back to "FDR style" politics which is what made this great America that Trump refers to (disclaimer, I mean economically of course, it wasn't great for minorities and women). Liberals can cry about it all they want and whine about progressives and purity tests and conservatives and swing voters can keep voting for Satan over milquetoast liberal candidates. Republicans wreck the house, Democrats do a little patchwork (but not enough to piss off their donors) and say "there, there" and hand out lollipops. I've had enough of the charade. I don't want to vote for Diet Republicans anymore.

I heard a commentator say this and I think it's true, the Democrats are hamstrung because they're operating within the narrow confines of not pissing off their donors. They've also shown they'd rather lose to Satan than allow a progressive agenda. They're more aggressive against leftwing politics than they are Republicans.

I remember in threads here several liberals mentioning how good the economy was and dismissing people who were saying that it's not good for the average person just like they pretended Biden wasn't showing cognitive decline several years ago.

But the apologists have already got their talking points worked out and are coming out en mass now. And I doubt the Democratic party learns a single thing about them selling out to big business and how that got us Trump in the end.

maybe they won't see it till the whole thing falls apart because of people like Trump.

 

[filthybliss]

No, it's not mean it's true. It's not mean, I don't feel the slightest bit of anger. It's true.

Brother, you are literally Blue MAGA. You literally couldn't have a dialogue about Bernie's shortcomings as a candidate.

 

[terrapin]

I don't agree but okay.

All I'm doing with you is the same thing I do with the Trump voters and it's the same thing you do with the Trump voters. It's not mean that's just telling it like it is.

You guys are all equally confused about what the problem really is and so you're equally confused about what the solution is. The only difference being I would expect the Democrats to be quicker to see the real problem then the Republicans.

But I do have a deep love for you and always have and that's not going to change.

 

[deviake]

That's pretty mean and unwarranted IMO.

Idk what I'm saying here that is so controversial tbh.

The average person disagrees about the economy. Young people know only absurdly high costs for everything.

There's a litany of mistakes the Democrats have made the last 8 years never mind neoliberal policy for the last several decades. I'll also disagree that this is only attributable to inflation. That played a part but that's not the whole story. Neoliberal politics is a road to nowhere. What you're saying seems like what the Democrats are going with. I don't think it's going to turn out well.

The Democrat's only hope presidentially if they stay this course is that Trump screws things up so bad that people will vote for the band aid again. Rinse, wash, repeat. If things keeps ratcheting to the right then good luck America.

 

[terrapin]

Brother, you are literally Blue MAGA. You literally couldn't have a dialogue about Bernie's shortcomings as a candidate.

Who are you?

 

[deviake]

But the apologists have already got their talking points worked out and are coming out en mass now. And I doubt the Democratic party learns a single thing about them corporate selling out to big business and how that got us Trump in the end.

maybe they won't see it till the whole thing falls apart because of people like Trump.

I've already seen the blame game start. Inside trader Nancy Pelosi already reacted to Bernie. I've had enough.

I think a lot of liberals don't realize the left has plenty of criticisms of Bernie too. I don't think he's nearly hostile enough, personally.

The Democrats need to get back to this:

 

[Sinister]

Excellent point and the mainstream media is really Orwellian at this point. There are degrees to how corrupt each outlet is, but none of them are reliable.

Orwell would say the problem is who owns the media.

I seem to recall a political movie hitting on this problem:

 

[filthybliss]

Who are you?

I guess a person that agrees with your assesment of the world's problems but I don't agree with your pathway to the solution...

 

[Islam Imamate]

All I'm doing with you is the same thing I do with the Trump voters and it's the same thing you do with the Trump voters. It's not mean that's just telling it like it is.

You guys are all equally confused about what the problem really is and so you're equally confused about what the solution is. The only difference being I would expect the Democrats to be quicker to see the real problem then the Republicans.

But I do have a deep love for you and always have and that's not going to change.

Where am I confused here? I am pretty sure I said inflation is the big reason Democrats lost, who disagrees with that?

The average person disagrees about the economy. Young people know only absurdly high costs for everything.

Sure voter sentiment about the economy was poor despite all the more objective indictors suggesting otherwise, not denying that.

There's a litany of mistakes the Democrats have made the last 8 years never mind neoliberal policy for the last several decades. I'll also disagree that this is only attributable to inflation. That played a part but that's not the whole story. Neoliberal politics is a road to nowhere. What you're saying seems like what the Democrats are going with. I don't think it's going to turn out well.

The Democrat's only hope presidentially if they stay this course is that Trump screws things up so bad that people will vote for the band aid again. Rinse, wash, repeat. If things keeps ratcheting to the right then good luck America.

If you think the average voter is concerned with "neoliberalism" then idk what to tell you.

If anything under Biden Dems ratcheted to the left and got punished for it.

 

[Sinister]

I've already seen the blame game start. Inside trader Nancy Pelosi already reacted to Bernie. I've had enough.

I think a lot of liberals don't realize the left has plenty of criticisms of Bernie too. I don't think he's nearly hostile enough, personally.

The Democrats need to get back to this:

Real leftists would be warning MAGA, the oligarchs, and the Christofascists that nothing creates radicalized Commies like what they intend to do to the middle class.

 

[ferrisjso]

He's contributed a lot to legislative successes

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/issues/legislation/sponsored_legislation/

And more than anything, he's been the Washington voice of the larger labor/inequality movement. He's helped move the Democrats left on many issues, mostly economic. The $15/hour minimum wage movement has resulted in many states (even red ones) raising their minimum wages throughout the years and it's largely thanks to him. I remember when the movement first started it seemed crazy and excessive and he was the only politician ranting about it like a nutjob. Now look at how mainstream it is.

He's also one of the few, if not the only, politician that was liked by both conservative and liberal voters. In opinion polls, he was the most respected politician for years.

And it's funny that bring up Chomsky because he might be the only politician that Chomsky's ever spoken mildly positive about.

He tried to move the Dems left on economic issues. The reality is the Democrats becoming the Republicans with social tolerance happened while he was in congress. When Bernie started in Congress the Democratic Party while not leftist was considerably less hostile to leftist forces than it is today.

 

[Gutter Chris]

All I'm doing with you is the same thing I do with the Trump voters and it's the same thing you do with the Trump voters. It's not mean that's just telling it like it is.

You guys are all equally confused about what the problem really is and so you're equally confused about what the solution is. The only difference being I would expect the Democrats to be quicker to see the real problem then the Republicans.

But I do have a deep love for you and always have and that's not going to change.

What policies do you think the democrats should either push or abandon to get back into power and be rid of people like Trump or even bring the magas over to their cause? I'm curious not trying to beef so go wild with it.

 

[deviake]

If you think the average voter is concerned with "neoliberalism" then idk what to tell you.

If anything under Biden Dems ratcheted to the left and got punished for it.

I never said they were.

No, Biden didn't go as hard as he could have, never mind that he was already in noticeable cognitive decline during the last cycle.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I never said they were.

No, Biden didn't go as hard as he could have, never mind that he was already in noticeable cognitive decline during the last cycle.

Biden had a razor thin majority and was still able to pass tons of meaningful legislation. He went as hard as he could have and was far more successful than Bernie would've been.