Elections Bernard Sanders doesn't believe in lubrication

[KAZSoliloquy]

@filthybliss

i dont expect u nor anyone else to listen to long vids, i only post cuz it's germaine to our discussion/this thread and in case you're interested. I blast through these at 1.5-2x while busy lol. This is a great discussion IMO

frankly, he's just as guilty as she is for waiting until now to say something.

 

[Sinister]

All the polls I see as well seem to suggest most potential socialist policies have pretty dam strong support from the US public as well, things like shifts towards more universal healthcare.

I feel like if your looking at the real nature of the voting public then they tend to be socially more conservative than the mainstream dems BUT economically more left wing(and more anti war) than them.

I mean really a lot of Trumps rhetoric is taking aim at the same targets economically isnt it? just its mostly broad popularist bollocks which will have very little positive effect if it even takes any real policy form at all.

It was Mitch McConnell himself who, in arguing against giving citizens money during covid vs. corporations and forcing Americans to die at work, said essentially: "We cant give them even a little taste of socialism because if we do, they'll never want anything else again."

And keep in mind that McConnell's greatest quest was to steer the US to semi-permanently favor the wealthy. Federal Courts full of corporatists, that's him. Supreme Court who almost invariably rules in favor of whatever corporations want, that's him. The complete denial (against John McCain) that the system is corrupt and favors the wealthy, McConnell.

There was a prominent train of thought around a hundred years ago (that never dies, only goes dormant) that politics is strictly for rich people. Those who downplayed this figured it was an education problem...that wealthy wannabe aristocrats just felt that the working class were too stupid to grasp politics (this election makes me wonder), so an idea moved forward to push for a basically educated citizenry (but not too educated, we dont want kids learning how to do their taxes or mortgage a house, or how escrow works).

However that's not the case, it's still always going to be that the non-working class will never not fund whoever wont challenge them. You start making them think the educated population want to vote away some of their wealth, they'll invest in fascists. And there's no such thing as Tony Stark. No billionaire with endless resources willing to die himself to save humanity, handing out grants to underprivileged talented kids like candy. In fact probably the closest thing this Country has to a real Tony Stark (in spirit) is MaCkenzie Scott.

 

[Xanzito]

I could not possibly agree more. The fact that Joe Biden even ran again was absurd, and not having a real primary was a fatal mistake.

This is a direct result of the DNC blocking the progressive takeover of the party. The Democrats would rather lose to Trump than lose to Bernie.

Easier to win another election than losing the whole internal machine in case of a Sanders takeover.

 

[Seano]

Sanders is a clown, its amazing people buy what this guy sells. He's a part of the democrat machine. He goes right along with them until they look bad, then he's all "thanks a lot deluded, out of touch democrats" . He endorsed Kamala, she got his stamp of approval. Maybe he should have spoke up before the election.

 

[Ares Black]

Easier to win another election than losing the whole internal machine in case of a Sanders takeover.

Exactly

 

[UberHere]

Sanders is a clown, it’s amazing people buy what this guy sells. He's a part of the democrat machine. He goes right along with them until they look bad, then he's all "thanks a lot deluded, out of touch democrats" . He endorsed Kamala, she got his stamp of approval. Maybe he should have spoke up before the election.

He endorsed Hillary in 2016 too right after she bent him over. Spineless

 

[Yehudim]

We just need to double down on the trannies, and we’ll get em next time.

 

[Yehudim]

It's the Steve Bannon argument.

He said the future is right wing populism vs. left wing populism. Populism is gonna win out.

Democrats put mainstream politics on the menu and got beat real bad this go around. But does doing left wing style populism give them chance of victory, or a more embarrassing defeat...... I think it could be the latter. My current view is the Left is too proud of their stances and intelligence on every topic to get along with and team up with folks that don't sit exactly on top of their beliefs.

The Right does well to harshly ridicule the left - buy well I mean they ridicule people that would never vote Right anyways. But the Left seems to want to ridicule not just folks that would never vote for the Left, but also folks that otherwise might consider it and/or would.

It's just a feeling I have now. Trump and Vance do not poll well on their own when it comes to favorability/unfavorability versus their opponents. Yet they basically cleaned house versus four years ago. I'm gonna say "it's the economy stupid (real or imagined)" and a secondary element of "as much as you find Trump and Vance annoying, people find YOU annoying".

Populism only lasts so long as the populists aren’t in power. If we had gotten 8 consecutive years of Trump or Bernie, there would still be problems they could not solve, and they would have difficulty blaming others for it. People would get disillusioned and then politics goes on.

I truly think that if we had 8 years of Trump in a row, we would still have huge inflation in the places where it matters, like housing, and we would finally get off the right wing populist train because there would be no more Trump for President and we would still have a huge unresolved economic issue.

I think populism on the left and right is a short term or medium term thing depending on how you define those time frames.

 

[b-hop]

Populism only lasts so long as the populists aren’t in power. If we had gotten 8 consecutive years of Trump or Bernie, there would still be problems they could not solve, and they would have difficulty blaming others for it. People would get disillusioned and then politics goes on.

I truly think that if we had 8 years of Trump in a row, we would still have huge inflation in the places where it matters, like housing, and we would finally get off the right wing populist train because there would be no more Trump for President and we would still have a huge unresolved economic issue.

I think populism on the left and right is a short term or medium term thing depending on how you define those time frames.

Always find those analysis funny, what makes Trump exactly more populist than Kamala?

 

[Bwagster]

LOL, I love how the takeaway from deluded leftists is always, "We just weren't retarded enough, that's why we lost."

Kamala was a horrible candidate, Dems need to be honest with that.

 

[Yehudim]

Always find those analysis funny, what makes Trump exactly more populist than Kamala?

Populist is a descriptive term not slur. Retard is definitely a slur, though.

 

[b-hop]

Populist is a descriptive term not slur. Retard is definitely a slur, though.

Yes but still, wich affirmations the Trump did seems less coherent and logic than for example supporting 100 genders?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

In the primary, but Biden took a much more Bernie-esque approach for the general.
But its all moot, yes, Bernie is correct, but Kamala shouldn't have had to even open her mouth to be chosen over a convicted felon, rapist, fraud, insurrectionist, 2x impeached failure who mismanaged a pandemic that lead to 1,000,000 American deaths, while adding $8T to the national debt.

Yeah, but feels and vibes are more important. This is painfully true by now.

Kamala and the other side are "for" the illegals, trannies in women's bathrooms, 46 genders and all other sorts of madness. Trump isn't "for" them so he gets the vote

 

[Yehudim]

Yes but still, wich affirmations the Trump did seems less coherent and logic than for example supporting 100 genders?

Populism =/= less coherent and logical

 

[Islam Imamate]

I thought Kamala would win, she was milquetoast but she had some solid policy and Trump ran a dog shit campaign, but nope. Looks like catering to Republicans and ignoring the left on specific issues didn't work out. Bernard has some tough knocks for the Democrats. Anyway, this election is over, back to fake tan, cheeseburger powered Hitler.

After Trump Win, Bernie Sanders Blames Democrats for Abandoning Working People

"It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them," Sanders said.

inthesetimes.com

Shortly before Vice President Kamala Harris delivered her concession speech on Wednesday, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders forcefully called out Democratic Party leadership for losing The White House and at least one chamber of Congress to Republicans. “It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders (I-Vt.) said in a statement. “First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well.”

“While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change,” said the senator, who decisively won reelection on Tuesday as Republicans reclaimed the upper chamber. “And they’re right.” After seeking the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016 and 2020, Sanders spent this cycle campaigning for Harris, warning of Republican President-elect Donald Trump’s return, blasting billionaire involvement in U.S. politics, and urging Democrats to better serve working people.

In Sanders’ new statement, he highlighted U.S. income and wealth inequality, worker concerns about artificial intelligence, and the federal government’s failure to provide paid leave and universal healthcare while pouring billions of dollars into Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip.

“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign? Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful oligarchy which has so much economic and political power?” he asked. “Probably not.”


“In the coming weeks and months those of us concerned about grassroots democracy and economic justice need to have some very serious political discussions,” Sanders concluded. “Stay tuned.”

Progressives — who have responded to Trump’s Electoral College and popular vote win by criticizing billionaires who backed him and promising “unprecedented resistance” during his second term — echoed Sanders’ remarks.

I'm skipping some here, I recommend reading the article. I'll post the last bit though.

“It’s time for Washington, D.C. to put up or shut up, no matter the party, no matter the candidate,” added Fain, whose union endorsed Harris. “Will our government stand with the working class, or keep doing the bidding of the billionaires? That’s the question we face today. And that’s the question we’ll face tomorrow. The answer lies with us. No matter who’s in office.”

The problem is the opposite, Joe Biden cared too much about the working class if anything. When you're using stimulus to spend your way out of a recession you can generally go in one of two directions. You can under-stimulate the economy like Obama did which means a slower recovery and more unemployment but you don't risk inflation or you can overstimulate the economy like Biden did which would lead to more growth and less unemployment but you risk inflation and potentially recession. Biden managed to get unemployment low and growth high without ever running into a recession but because inflation is a problem felt by everyone while unemployment is only felt by the unemployed its actually politically more toxic than under-stimulating the economy and experiencing slower growth. It seems the electorate would rather have more unemployment and less growth rather than experience inflation.

 

[Rob Battisti]

The Right does well to harshly ridicule the left - buy well I mean they ridicule people that would never vote Right anyways. But the Left seems to want to ridicule not just folks that would never vote for the Left, but also folks that otherwise might consider it and/or would

Well stated

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The problem is the opposite, Joe Biden cared too much about the working class if anything. When you're using stimulus to spend your way out of a recession you can generally go in one of two directions. You can under-stimulate the economy like Obama did which means a slower recovery and more unemployment but you don't risk inflation or you can overstimulate the economy like Biden did which would lead to more growth and less unemployment but you risk inflation and potentially recession. Biden managed to get unemployment low and growth high without ever running into a recession but because inflation is a problem felt by everyone while unemployment is only felt by the unemployed its actually politically more toxic than under-stimulating the economy and experiencing slower growth. It seems the electorate would rather have more unemployment and less growth rather than experience inflation.

I disagree that Joe caring too much was a problem. Lets not forget that inflation was a global issue and the US has emerged better than anybody.
I think the media not reporting on that properly, combined with Biden not being physically/ mentally able to lead from the front on that issue allowed the right to hijack that issue.
I think, relative to anybody's expectations, Biden had a great administration (domestically). But the data obviously showed people were still hurting and confused and rather than address it head on they just kept repeating stock market and unemployment data. Even my favorite economist Dean Baker. was a little condescending on this issue (although his main gripe was with the media portrayal of the economy).

But again, ultimately we live in a sick society. where we overwhelming voted for a rapist, traitor, felon, twice impeached, 5x draft dodging make up wearing incompetent pos who failed America during the pandemic to tune of 1,000,000 dead. A man who is promising to raise tariffs and deport millions of immigrants (many who are here legally) and give tax breaks to the already super wealthy, while persecuting the most vulnerable members of society.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

This guy leaving in 2022 is a decent pivot point to examine re: Biden's administration:

Klain on Biden: He is focused too much on bridges​

The former chief of staff praised the president’s accomplishments. But he also wondered whether he had the right focus.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/09/ron-klain-joe-biden-infrastructure-00151438

 

[Islam Imamate]

I disagree that Joe caring too much was a problem. Lets not forget that inflation was a global issue and the US has emerged better than anybody.
I think the media not reporting on that properly, combined with Biden not being physically/ mentally able to lead from the front on that issue allowed the right to hijack that issue.
I think, relative to anybody's expectations, Biden had a great administration (domestically). But the data obviously showed people were still hurting and confused and rather than address it head on they just kept repeating stock market and unemployment data. Even my favorite economist Dean Baker. was a little condescending on this issue (although his main gripe was with the media portrayal of the economy).

But again, ultimately we live in a sick society. where we overwhelming voted for a rapist, traitor, felon, twice impeached, 5x draft dodging make up wearing incompetent pos who failed America during the pandemic to tune of 1,000,000 dead. A man who is promising to raise tariffs and deport millions of immigrants (many who are here legally) and give tax breaks to the already super wealthy, while persecuting the most vulnerable members of society.

We saw record highs in consumer spending and business formation which I think are indicators that people were not only not struggling but that they were doing well. People said they felt bad about the economy but their actions didn't really show it.

The housing crisis is real but that's not Biden's fault and if anything Trump will likely make it worse as he supports NIMBYism which is what caused the housing crisis so idk that it makes sense to vote for Trump is your worry is housing costs.

 

[SKYNET]

“It’s time for Washington, D.C. to put up or shut up, no matter the party, no matter the candidate,” added Fain, whose union endorsed Harris. “Will our government stand with the working class, or keep doing the bidding of the billionaires? That’s the question we face today. And that’s the question we’ll face tomorrow. The answer lies with us. No matter who’s in office.”

Hilarious coming from Bernie now.