Being a well rounded fighter is great until you run into a highly specialized offensive juggernaut who has good defense

[Skarsgard]

He wasn't exiting. Unfortunately volk went for a collar tie with one hand and tried to counter with his other hand. Big mistake lol.

I'll have to watch it again. Thought he was exiting the pocket and swiped lazily.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Rock always looks unbeatable when matched up against Scissors.
When Paper calls for a title shot Rock will say Paper doesn't deserve a shot because Rock beat Scissors who beat Paper.

Yeah, but what about Lizard and Spock? (TBBT reference, lol)

GSP was a well-rounded a mixed martial artist as you could possibly get, but that isn't what made him effective at neutralizing his oppnents strengths or exploiting their weaknesses. It was his discipline, his ability to listen to his corner, and to actually follow a gameplan. His fight IQ was good enough to do as he was told, but aware enough to recognize and adapt when necessary.

To the original point, I don't think Volk vs Topuria really came down to a fighter being more or less well-rounded or one of the two being a better specialist (either offensively or defensively).

Ultimately, I think it came down to factors that were simply beyond Volk's control. The most notable factor was the speed and there is nothing that Volk can do to gain the edge in that department. Ilia was simply faster, it just seemed like Volk was in first gear and Ilia was in second. The other thing I noticed was that Ilia was better at gauging the range and getting in and out. Again, at 35 years old, it's a factor that Volk really can't improve on to the point where he becomes better than Ilia at.

I believe if he really wanted to, Topuria could probably put together a pretty lengthy reign at FW. Something tells me he won't though. He just seems the type driven by the challenge and the fight, not by the belt. If he rematches Volk to the same end, and beats Holloway (who I would expect to be his next opponent), hanging around 145 for another contender to emerge seems like a waste of time and talent.

 

[pankrat]

That's my takeaway from the Topuria Volk fight. I think Volk is as well rounded as it gets but he faced a guy in Topuria who was just far more dangerous on the feet. Volk has more diverse striking but Topurias boxing was good enough to shut all that down and while volk is probably the better grappler, Topurias defense was good enough to render it a non factor.

Excuse me but,

1- Topuria could very well be more well-rounded than Volk, at least in terms of skill-set since he has better takedowns and submissions. Cardio might be the only advantage in favour of Volk but he is definitely not outgrappling Topuria.

2- Topuria's calf kicks seriously messed with Volk's jab based game plan, and by extent, with his ability to keep his dinstance, and by extent his ability to prevent Topuria to get in the inside and unload those much superior punches both in terms of power and precision.

 

[Istryker]

Topuria is well rounded though...

He was literally made for MMA

 

[Slapjit]

My boi Big Mac back in the day was pure street boxer cross trained wid me in slaps sometimes used to throw handz with the best of them could buck even dem wrestling dons when I was vibin' with the mandem in the Penn they ain't get a hold of him not once fam Squad member-dem kept tryna scoop them legs but ended up eatin' a double scoop of that chocolate crunch straight to the dome ting was mad lit one time fought this country yute from across town that boy could buck too but Big Mac ate dem shots like Timmies threw a slick 1 - 2 man was straight snorin' lol coulda made the UFC but mans just became a welder instead make more money dat way

#equalpayformma

 

[Deleted member 585708]

That's my takeaway from the Topuria Volk fight. I think Volk is as well rounded as it gets but he faced a guy in Topuria who was just far more dangerous on the feet. Volk has more diverse striking but Topurias boxing was good enough to shut all that down and while volk is probably the better grappler, Topurias defense was good enough to render it a non factor.

All rounder vs specialist is an age old question I hope never gets an answer!

 

[Deleted member 110072]

that's not what happened when Fedor fought Big Nog or Mirko who were both specialists in 2 vastly different martial arts. that's not what happened when Cain fought JDS. or when Woodley fought Darren Till or Wonderboy. in MMA there is no absolutes. everything hinges on the individual.

To be fair though in Fedor's case he won mostly via beating them at their own game not via being more rounded, well at least the first Nog fight. I think Fedor is a good example of someone who didnt just "round out" his game he became elite in areas outside of his core skill set, in this case his striking.

I'd agree rounded fighters can often have problems with opponents who have a narrower game but are good at forcing people to play that game but I'm not sure thats really what happened here as who the better grappler is seems pretty uncertain to me, Volk maybe more tested but Topuria has far more sub wins. My guess is on the ground Volk would not be able to do much more than get a bit of control and maybe some light GnP, he'd be at more risk if Topuria got ontop of him IMHO.

 

[blaseblase]

I believe if he really wanted to, Topuria could probably put together a pretty lengthy reign at FW. Something tells me he won't though. He just seems the type driven by the challenge and the fight, not by the belt. If he rematches Volk to the same end, and beats Holloway (who I would expect to be his next opponent), hanging around 145 for another contender to emerge seems like a waste of time and talent.

Pursuing greatness is a waste of time and talent?

 

[markg171]

that's not what happened when Fedor fought Big Nog or Mirko who were both specialists in 2 vastly different martial arts. that's not what happened when Cain fought JDS. or when Woodley fought Darren Till or Wonderboy. in MMA there is no absolutes. everything hinges on the individual.

Nearly every single one of your examples involves the winning fighter being better at their own specialty, thus leading them to the victory.

For a guy like Fedor it's just more obvious as he openly outgrappled them with his superior grappling, but Woodley's superior grappling is equally what led him to be able to strike with Till and Wonderboy who had to be worried about being taken gown and thus got caught standing. Everybody saw what happened when you take away Woodley's grappling advantage and he actually has to strike with somebody.

 

[r-harper-1]

That's my takeaway from the Topuria Volk fight. I think Volk is as well rounded as it gets but he faced a guy in Topuria who was just far more dangerous on the feet. Volk has more diverse striking but Topurias boxing was good enough to shut all that down and while volk is probably the better grappler, Topurias defense was good enough to render it a non factor.

Volk not the better grappler at all imo

 

[markg171]

On the flip, being specialized is good until you run into someone that that specialization doesn't work against (usually when a wrestler finds someone they can't take down, but another example is Cruz's unorthodox boxing/footwork getting laughed at by Cody) and they look like a fish out of water

Yes and no. Shields and Askren for instance were absolutely correct to try and grapple Maia, even if they had different results attempting it. They're all 3 master grapplers and shitty strikers. Might as well see who's better on the ground than risk a standup fight none of them really know how to win.

Trying to fight anyway other than your own bread and butter is stupid. Might be a worthless effort as the other guy's just better than you at it, or nullifies it anyways, but trying something else, still using Maia as he's such an obvious example, is what gets you Nate Marquardt'd instead.

 

[maximus__]

That's my takeaway from the Topuria Volk fight. I think Volk is as well rounded as it gets but he faced a guy in Topuria who was just far more dangerous on the feet. Volk has more diverse striking but Topurias boxing was good enough to shut all that down and while volk is probably the better grappler, Topurias defense was good enough to render it a non factor.

Volk was winning until he wasn't. It's MMA.

12 months ago, Topuria looks like Emmet does in most of his ranked fights vs Volk, but they had footage on how to catch him.

I am hoping we see a wrestle heavy GSP like approach from Volk in the rematch if we get one. He originally was piecing up Ilia, like most thought he would, but went to the same combos and exits too many times. Credit to Ilia who threw a 5 punch combo and trapped him in there for the finish, but Volk doesn't get put out like that without the recent Islam KO. It looked like Overeem who used to just get switched off when hit flush from so many KO's.

 

[r-harper-1]

Who has Volk subbed that is Mitchell level on the ground ……I feel I’m one of the few that watched Topuria fights before the ufc ….hes a monster on the ground

 

[maximus__]

Topuria just lacks body and highkicks.
No clue why he does not throw them.
His boxing, wrestling and jitz is very good.
He has 8 submissions in 15 fights, Volk 3 in 30

He seems to have good offensive wrestling, but maybe lacks defensive wrestling. His stand up is kinda similar. He is all offence and can be hit, but he is early in his career and the chin has held up so far.

 

[r-harper-1]

Volk was winning until he wasn't. It's MMA.

12 months ago, Topuria looks like Emmet does in most of his ranked fights vs Volk, but they had footage on how to catch him.

I am hoping we see a wrestle heavy GSP like approach from Volk in the rematch if we get one. He originally was piecing up Ilia, like most thought he would, but went to the same combos and exits too many times. Credit to Ilia who threw a 5 punch combo and trapped him in there for the finish, but Volk doesn't get put out like that without the recent Islam KO. It looked like Overeem who used to just get switched off when hit flush from so many KO's.

lol at piecing him up and lol at out wrestling him ….Wow

 

[markg171]

People often comment that X fighter will win "because he has more weapons." But sometimes it's better to have really good armor and a really, REALLY sharp sword.

Reminds me of Aldo. Aldo did use to be really well rounded early on. It helped get him to the top and led to some awesome moments.

What kept him there though, and how he fought for the rest of his career long past plenty of other GOATs because he got really great at it, was throwing hands, defending TDs, and checking kicks to keep things a boxing match. The flying knees, leg kicks, ground game, were all abandoned once he'd mastered this style instead.

Aldo found a strategy he really liked and worked against a lot of opponents because he was excellent at it and forced them into his preferred fight. And with better cardio, not a more diverse or stronger skillset, it probably would've worked against a lot more of his losses. Conor's really the big one where it just rightfully didn't work trying to box with the better boxer, but that was always going to be how Aldo would approach it no matter how many delusional people thought he'd bring back the leg kicks or his BJJ BB.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Yeah, but what about Lizard and Spock? (TBBT reference, lol)

GSP was a well-rounded a mixed martial artist as you could possibly get, but that isn't what made him effective at neutralizing his oppnents strengths or exploiting their weaknesses. It was his discipline, his ability to listen to his corner, and to actually follow a gameplan. His fight IQ was good enough to do as he was told, but aware enough to recognize and adapt when necessary.

To the original point, I don't think Volk vs Topuria really came down to a fighter being more or less well-rounded or one of the two being a better specialist (either offensively or defensively).

Ultimately, I think it came down to factors that were simply beyond Volk's control. The most notable factor was the speed and there is nothing that Volk can do to gain the edge in that department. Ilia was simply faster, it just seemed like Volk was in first gear and Ilia was in second. The other thing I noticed was that Ilia was better at gauging the range and getting in and out. Again, at 35 years old, it's a factor that Volk really can't improve on to the point where he becomes better than Ilia at.

I believe if he really wanted to, Topuria could probably put together a pretty lengthy reign at FW. Something tells me he won't though. He just seems the type driven by the challenge and the fight, not by the belt. If he rematches Volk to the same end, and beats Holloway (who I would expect to be his next opponent), hanging around 145 for another contender to emerge seems like a waste of time and talent.

I think in MMA the thing that makes champs fight 2 times per year max, more often less is two main things:
1. weight cutting. Fighters that get no damage like Topuria in this fight need time to recover just from the dehydration and all the toll it takes on their body. If the UFC eliminated the dehydrating they could fight more often. This could be accomplished by simply implementing six weight checks. 6 weeks out, 3 weeks out and day of the fight have scheduled weigh ins and 3 random weigh ins. Weight classes are 10lb ranges with the 1lb allowance. If a fighter misses a weight check give them 10% fine. fighters will choose the weight class they can maintain and will be forced to keep in fight shape.

2. Fighters and especially champions make more from the "Opportunities" outside of fighting because they are a UFC fighter/Champion then they do for the actual fighting. If fighters were signed and knew they didn't have to cut weight and could fight 3x per year knowing they will make $X for the year rather then scraping by and begging for scraps it would be better IMO.

 

[maximus__]

lol at piecing him up and lol at out wrestling him ….Wow

You don;t think Volk was winning the first round and looking good prior to the knockout? The two clean shots he took were the ones that put him down, but that bodykick/high kick game had Ilia looking worried at the start there. He was wearing visible damage and didn;t come out of that fight with nothing. If you hadn't seen the fight, Volk looked fresh and Ilia was wearing facial damage.

All credit to Ilia for adjusting and getting him out of there how he did, but if that fight continued how it was and Ilia didn't get the KO, he was on his way to comfortably losing a decision. I will give both fighters credit where it's due.

Yeah Volk can wrestle. I would like to see him go to it more. I never said he was out wrestling him, I would just like to see him mix it in if he chooses to keep fighting. His striking has become kinda predictable and he has been caught in the same sort of way two times now as he exits exchanges towards the cage. He was able to hang with Islam in the wrestling as the fight went on and has shown if he gets the fight there he can do damage and finish. Why not mix that in?

 

[GrantB13]

And being specialized is all good until you have a guy well rounded enough to negate your strength and be much better than your weakness.

 

[fortheo]

You don;t think Volk was winning the first round and looking good prior to the knockout? The two clean shots he took were the ones that put him down, but that bodykick/high kick game had Ilia looking worried at the start there. He was wearing visible damage and didn;t come out of that fight with nothing. If you hadn't seen the fight, Volk looked fresh and Ilia was wearing facial damage.

All credit to Ilia for adjusting and getting him out of there how he did, but if that fight continued how it was and Ilia didn't get the KO, he was on his way to comfortably losing a decision. I will give both fighters credit where it's due.

Yeah Volk can wrestle. I would like to see him go to it more. I never said he was out wrestling him, I would just like to see him mix it in if he chooses to keep fighting. His striking has become kinda predictable and he has been caught in the same sort of way two times now as he exits exchanges towards the cage. He was able to hang with Islam in the wrestling as the fight went on and has shown if he gets the fight there he can do damage and finish. Why not mix that in?

If you haven't heard, topuria is now the most well rounded fighter ever, despite only fighting one truly notable opponent and using 90 percent boxing in his ufc fights.

The guy is great at what he does, but the hyperbole about how well rounded he is is getting out of control. Topuria still has a lot he needs to prove in my opinion.