Battle of the 22-1 Records

[HUNTERMANIA]

Who knows how long Jonathan was juicing.

So, all his victories should technically be NC. So, in essence, Jonathan is 0-1.

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

Well, one is a male and the other a transgender fighting males, so I think this thread is full of sexism.

Anyway, obviously Cruz>>>>>EstroJones.

 

[Slapchoppin]

well Cruz never failed a drug test so theres that

 

[scorpipede]

Who knows how long Jonathan was juicing.

So, all his victories should technically be NC. So, in essence, Jonathan is 0-1.

nobody knows so why consider it?
not everybody that juices wins.
If he juiced in all his fights, lets assume, then he would have 23 no contests.

 

[Dowdy]

Cruz has split decisions.

Jones dominates

 

[hardcoreBE]

And Chael

Let me guess, you don't put Glover ahead of Rashad, Machida, Rampage and Shogun?

 

[DaleBoca]

nobody knows so why consider it?
not everybody that juices wins.
If he juiced in all his fights, lets assume, then he would have 23 no contests.

There have been instances where the loss was not overturned for the loser but the NC was put on for the person that has "won" the fight.

But then we agree Jonathan has no wins in the sport.

You may say he also has no losses, the same could be said about you and I.

 

[Mochan]

same question for you, how do you compare the two divisions?

This isn't really about the division itself, but more about the specific people Jones beat.

LHW was filled with sharks who were champions in that division in the UFC and elsewhere. Jones destroyed them all. Destroyed, as in domianted, obliterated, smashed to a pulp. Not decisionated like Cruz did.

Cruz beat some champions too but Jones blasted far more of them. Cruz beat I think 5 of them? Jones has like twice that number under his belt.

 

[Mochan]

I don't know how you compare the two divisions. I'd say that Cruz has faced opponents that had similar physical attributes as him while Jones almost always had a reach and overall size advantage. He beats up on "over-sized" middleweights and decisions legit LHWs.

That's a point for Cruz.

***

If you want to say that Cruz beat people his own size while Jones is just an oversized gigantic LHW and had a size advantage over everyone he fought: well tough luck. Nobody's stopping Cruz from fighting at 125 if he wants a size advantage.

P4P is inherently stupid anyway, all that matters is who wins the fight. It's not like Jones missed weight or anything. He's a legit LHW. He beat people at the weight, so yeah. I don't care if he's oversized or not. He made weight. Deal with it.

I would only consider this a point for Cruz if he were a tiny flyweight and was moving up to beat people above his weight class.

 

[Rondas Pillow]

Cruz has split decisions.

Jones dominates

Jones hasn't finished an opponent in 3 years. He won't for 2 more.

 

[Drake]

Jones is a cheater & Dom is arguably the most talented fighter of all time & has the greatest, most miraculous comeback in all of sports history.

Fun fact: Dom has a more recent finish than cheater Jones.


Cruz bless

 

[scorpipede]

***

If you want to say that Cruz beat people his own size while Jones is just an oversized gigantic LHW and had a size advantage over everyone he fought: well tough luck. Nobody's stopping Cruz from fighting at 125 if he wants a size advantage.

P4P is inherently stupid anyway, all that matters is who wins the fight. It's not like Jones missed weight or anything. He's a legit LHW. He beat people at the weight, so yeah. I don't care if he's oversized or not. He made weight. Deal with it.

I would only consider this a point for Cruz if he were a tiny flyweight and was moving up to beat people above his weight class.

you'd be impressed by Cruz beating people above his weight class yet you're arguing that Jones beating people he has the size advantage over makes his record more impressive?

don't bring pound for pound into this. I never talk pound for pound. It's misused here. Enough with that.

 

[scorpipede]

There have been instances where the loss was not overturned for the loser but the NC was put on for the person that has "won" the fight.

But then we agree Jonathan has no wins in the sport.

You may say he also has no losses, the same could be said about you and I.

that kind of makes sense to me but I've never heard of it.

 

[Mochan]

Jones hasn't finished an opponent in 3 years. He won't for 2 more.

Recent shittiness doesn't erase past accomplishments, despite what Sherdog would have you believe.

 

[Mochan]

you'd be impressed by Cruz beating people above his weight class yet you're arguing that Jones beating people he has the size advantage over makes his record more impressive?

Yeah, my point is Jones made weight. I don't really care about the size advantage he had, he legitimately competed at that weight. Cruz doesn't get extra points for "being small" like you are suggesting, the fact of the matter is both competed legitimately at their respective weight classes, neither deserves extra points for anything size-related.

Of course someone fighting above his weight and winning is impressive? I don't see the problem. There is no cognitive dissonance here, neither is mutually exclusive.

 

[scorpipede]

Yeah, my point is Jones made weight. I don't really care about the size advantage he had, he legitimately competed at that weight. Cruz doesn't get extra points for "being small" like you are suggesting, the fact of the matter is both competed legitimately at their respective weight classes, neither deserves extra points for anything size-related.

Of course someone fighting above his weight and winning is impressive? I don't see the problem. There is no cognitive dissonance here, neither is mutually exclusive.

I never said Cruz was small. Not at all. You're comparing their opponents and valuing Jones' higher than Cruz'. I'm interested why. I haven't read anything that makes me consider one more impressive than the other.

 

[milenss]

Jones is a cheater & Dom is arguably the most talented fighter of all time & has the greatest, most miraculous comeback in all of sports history.

Most miraculous comeback ... thanks to the judges & the UFC agenda.

 

[Lanx]

Cruz had science FAIL him 4x, 3 ACL's and 1 groin? who can remember...

While Jon Jones is "allegedly" further enhanced by science.

I mean really...

Most miraculous comeback ... thanks to the judges & the UFC agenda.

so easy to spot the dilly fans, basically they're tiny white manlets, who can live their MMA life vicariously through TJ, until that brown guy Cruz took back what was rightfully his.

 

[scorpipede]

Most miraculous comeback ... thanks to the judges & the UFC agenda.

It's tinfoil hat time ladies and germs!!!

I fuckin love tinfoil hat time.

 

[Drake]

Most miraculous comeback ... thanks to the judges & the UFC agenda.

You're never gonna let that one go are you?

Dom won, man. Move on. TJ will probably get a rematch. Then you can be upset about him losing that one instead.