BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN Thread 4.0 (Three More Join Cast)

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TheonGreyJoy said:
I think the parody comes in, in that we are to think guys like Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom (Marvel Universe obviously) then must not be using Prep Time.

If prep time is such a magic bullet that an otherwise normal human never takes the big loss to the near god like entities, then obviously many of the top badies are simply not using it.

A top baddie or Batman can prepare all they want. yes they are smart. But so are guys like Superman. Couple that with the massive physical advantages they have and 'prep time' should be nothing more then a hall mary basketball shots taken from half court. a one in a lifetime shot to overcome terrible odds.

the real reason guys like Batman are written to beat a guy like Superman is to appeal to the human ego. We are in awe of these fantasy super hero's and all geek out and dream about such powers. But we cannot have them. But wait! We normal humans can be greater then even the most powerful, god like human. We humans may have not have the physical power but we do have our own god like power inside all of us. Prep time.

or so they sell us and we buy because it feeds our human ego to believe it at some extent.

(the same reason why almost every Alien invasion movie has us over come them and win the war. Boo Ya, we buy into that shit. We humans can overcome everything)
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I agree to a point..but there are many instances where superman..flash...lantern...cyborg..wonder girl...power girl...supergirl..captain atom..steel...aquaman..etc all these guys have been beaten or neutralized by villains with batmans m.o. intelligence...resources...technology or other super heroes/villains used to take them down or magic. The question is do guys have the smarts to find out their mental strategical physical physiological weaknesses; an do you have the resources to exploit them ( for superman tbere is magic...red kryptonite...green kryptonite..a machine that can drain solar energy or interrupt his ability to absorb it or certain heroes/villains who can fight him I.e. wonder woman...faora...zod...shazam...) Most guys only seek to fight them head on...bats is crazy but not dumb he knows he can't beat them head on..but sneak attack..a trap..or another superhuman. And unlike other heroes or villains batman actually researches these guys guys regularly..repeatedly...maniacally; every habit..tendency...etc.

And a common thing with villains/heroes with powers thy aren't very efficient...which i is what batman lex luger punisher wolverine captain america daredevil and others repeatedly say.

There are limits of course and I think they address it fairly; thor has clearly and easily handled iron man...superman has done the same to batman...iron man did it cap in civil war....captain america has done it to daredevil...spiderman has done it to kingpin..wonder woman has handled batmn...etc etc There
 
Sidenote I always wonder what the other heroes/villains really think of batman; even with all his resources...research..discipline.. HE is still just a human in a bat costume who has a growly voice...with the power level of some of these guys...I can't imagine they take him seriously...all the time.

Like when he squared off with wonderwomn and he told her don't make me go through you and she told him straight up you can't..
 
devante said:
Sidenote I always wonder what the other heroes/villains really think of batman; even with all his resources...research..discipline.. HE is still just a human in a bat costume who has a growly voice...with the power level of some of these guys...I can't imagine they take him seriously...all the time.

Like when he squared off with wonderwomn and he told her don't make me go through you and she told him straight up you can't..
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Exactly. Wonder Woman said what all the "powered" heroes know - they have no reason to fear him.

I've been a lifelong comics (and Batman) fan although admittedly I get to read them far less often these days. Batman is undoubtedly one of the greatest comic book heroes of all time. I am willing to buy into that "willing suspension of disbelief" necessary to enjoy the stories, and to overlook the fact that Batman is a mere mortal yet can hold his own against Superman. But, as a mere mortal there are very few ways he can ever pose a threat to some characters, even with his cunning planning and so-called ruthlessness. In the case of Batman vs. Superman, I just think that Superman would have literally no reason to fear Batman because he knows that like himself, Batman is a good guy, and his moral code would never let him resort to killing him. In a similar vein, even someone like the Punisher, who does kill, would never kill someone like Spiderman if they came to odds. It's just one of the things you accept in comics, the battle between good and evil, and the good guys rarely ever kill.

But, trying to explain the premise to non-comics fans is impossible. My girlfriend, who has never been a comic book reader but does enjoy the movies, thinks the idea of a Batman vs. Superman movie is stupid. She knows that Superman is powerful enough to literally destroy Batman in any number of ways, whereas Batman's only chance is to use kryptonite. I suspect many other non-comic readers but potential moviegoers share the same opinion.

Although my gf thinks Batman vs. Superman is dumb, she still wants to see it in the hopes of seeing Affleck and Cavill wrestling around without shirts on.... sigh.
 
Rykusx said:
Exactly. Wonder Woman said what all the "powered" heroes know - they have no reason to fear him.

I've been a lifelong comics (and Batman) fan although admittedly I get to read them far less often these days. Batman is undoubtedly one of the greatest comic book heroes of all time. I am willing to buy into that "willing suspension of disbelief" necessary to enjoy the stories, and to overlook the fact that Batman is a mere mortal yet can hold his own against Superman. But, as a mere mortal there are very few ways he can ever pose a threat to some characters, even with his cunning planning and so-called ruthlessness. In the case of Batman vs. Superman, I just think that Superman would have literally no reason to fear Batman because he knows that like himself, Batman is a good guy, and his moral code would never let him resort to killing him. In a similar vein, even someone like the Punisher, who does kill, would never kill someone like Spiderman if they came to odds. It's just one of the things you accept in comics, the battle between good and evil, and the good guys rarely ever kill.

But, trying to explain the premise to non-comics fans is impossible. My girlfriend, who has never been a comic book reader but does enjoy the movies, thinks the idea of a Batman vs. Superman movie is stupid. She knows that Superman is powerful enough to literally destroy Batman in any number of ways, whereas Batman's only chance is to use kryptonite. I suspect many other non-comic readers but potential moviegoers share the same opinion.

Although my gf thinks Batman vs. Superman is dumb, she still wants to see it in the hopes of seeing Affleck and Cavill wrestling around without shirts on.... sigh.
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I remember a time when Batman was arguing with the flash..a.d he pushed the flash against the wall...flash changed into his costume in an instance and told him the only reason you touched me is because I let you. As if to clarify to Batman that your not running shit...

I think to a certain degree they respect what he has accomplished with no powers and a whole lot of limitations; the fear of him comes from the fact he is a good looking super rich smart guy who chooses to dedicate his life fighting crime of any and every kind. Facing regular humans who are his equal or superior...facing low level guys who are his superior...and facing high level guys who are gods compared to him. He faces them without fear or hesitation..whereas guys with powers don't..

A guy who is very mortally courageously and willingly face threats of all levels threats the other heroes would not face if in his positions..which is shown when they face a guy who is Foo much for them to handle..ie most heroes wouldn't fight a evil Superman or face off with darkseid.. Batman would.
 
Marty Hart may not be the World's Greatest Detective but he would have blown Joker's head off 40 years ago.
 
TheonGreyJoy said:
I think the parody comes in, in that we are to think guys like Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom (Marvel Universe obviously) then must not be using Prep Time.

If prep time is such a magic bullet that an otherwise normal human never takes the big loss to the near god like entities, then obviously many of the top badies are simply not using it.

A top baddie or Batman can prepare all they want. yes they are smart. But so are guys like Superman. Couple that with the massive physical advantages they have and 'prep time' should be nothing more then a hall mary basketball shots taken from half court. a one in a lifetime shot to overcome terrible odds.

the real reason guys like Batman are written to beat a guy like Superman is to appeal to the human ego. We are in awe of these fantasy super hero's and all geek out and dream about such powers. But we cannot have them. But wait! We normal humans can be greater then even the most powerful, god like human. We humans may have not have the physical power but we do have our own god like power inside all of us. Prep time.

or so they sell us and we buy because it feeds our human ego to believe it at some extent.

(the same reason why almost every Alien invasion movie has us over come them and win the war. Boo Ya, we buy into that shit. We humans can overcome everything)
Click to expand...

Valid points, although it must be said that Villains like Luthor and Doom often lose because of arrogance. They don't bother to plan for every single possible contingency, simply because they believe themselves so powerful and smart they don't need to.

An example of this is when Luthor fired a LexCorp employee who figured out that Superman's secret identity is Clark Kent. Luthor simply rejected this information out of hand, because he could not believe a being of Superman's God-like power would disguise himself as such an unimportant human.

Batman has no such illusions. He knows he's completely out-gunned, and will plan everything to the tenth decimal point in order to give himself whatever edge he can.
 
KnightTemplar said:
So would Dredd or The Punisher.:icon_twis
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Absolutely. If Joker was a Marvel Villain, he would have been taken out in the 80's by Scourge (remember him :D). Thats not to say he's not one of the top 5 villains of all time (2 or 3 on my list), but his shtik wouldn't work in the Big Leagues :icon_twis
 
The Punisher would have blown his head off at the first maniacal cackle.
 
I'm a huge Batman mark. And I could have cared less about Captain America a year ago. That said, I am looking forward to The Winter Soldier far more than Superman vs. Batman or whatever. Marvel is just doing that much better of a job with their cinematic universe.
 
CrazyN8 said:
Marvel is just doing that much better of a job with their cinematic universe.
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I agree as it pertains to development and release of their intellectual properties. I disagree as to the quality of the films though.

I am more of a Marvel fanboy, but in general I much prefer the DC films based on the strength of Nolan's Batman trilogy and the Watchmen; the latest Superman reboot was decent enough. Jonah Hex and Green Lantern were...regrettable. I don't think Marvel has been able to match DC's films in terms of story quality. Even the strongest Marvel flicks in terms of story & acting - the X-Men franchise and the Avengers - don't come close to the quality of Batman.

Going forward who knows...Nolan's done with Batman and there are very few remaining DC properties I'd be interested in seeing a big screen adaptation of outside the Justice League. I think Marvel has more options for the future but I'm not thrilled about some of the things that are in the pipeline. X-Force has me excited, Deadpool would have been awesome (but now appears dead in the water)...but other films / scripts being worked on right now have me baffled. Black Widow? Ant Man? Dr. Strange? Luke Cage? Black Panther? Seriously wth... Even as a comics fan I don't have much desire to see these flicks.
 
Rykusx said:
I agree as it pertains to development and release of their intellectual properties. I disagree as to the quality of the films though.

I am more of a Marvel fanboy, but in general I much prefer the DC films based on the strength of Nolan's Batman trilogy and the Watchmen; the latest Superman reboot was decent enough. Jonah Hex and Green Lantern were...regrettable. I don't think Marvel has been able to match DC's films in terms of story quality. Even the strongest Marvel flicks in terms of story & acting - the X-Men franchise and the Avengers - don't come close to the quality of Batman.

Going forward who knows...Nolan's done with Batman and there are very few remaining DC properties I'd be interested in seeing a big screen adaptation of outside the Justice League. I think Marvel has more options for the future but I'm not thrilled about some of the things that are in the pipeline. X-Force has me excited, Deadpool would have been awesome (but now appears dead in the water)...but other films / scripts being worked on right now have me baffled. Black Widow? Ant Man? Dr. Strange? Luke Cage? Black Panther? Seriously wth... Even as a comics fan I don't have much desire to see these flicks.
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The Dark Knight stuff was high quality cinematography. Batman lends itself to that sophisticated noir feeling and the lack of superpowers makes it much easier to pull that off.

Watchmen demanded a meticulous touch and the source material was everything, so while the filming was a challenge, the story was right there.

Iron Man I, Spider-Man II, ASM I, and Avengers I were all excellent.

The X-Men and F.F. are run by Fox ('nuff said).

I think Capt. America TWS and Guardians of the Galaxy are going to outshine them all. After that the budgets for these movies will allow for premiere writing/directing for the next 10 years.

DC should seek to dominate tv and animation in the meantime.
 
X2
Watchmen
TDK
TDKR



All significantly better than anything Marvel Studios has made.

And Green Lantern is better than it gets credit for. If MS made it, people would love how silly and over the top it is. I've seen people complain about GL because he made a race track with the ring. Come on now
 
Green Lantern stunk because of how they wrote Hal Jordan. It was obvious that they either 1. cast Reynolds and wrote the part around his strengths, or 2. cast Reynolds and then changed the role to fit Reynolds' strengths/ people's expectations.

And the plot wasn't very compelling. You never cared about anybody or had any doubt how it would turn out. It wasn't awful it was just generic.

I thought the Green Lantern parts were fantastic. Oa was a little too cartoony for my taste, too.
 
Sigh GunRanger said:
X2
Watchmen
TDK
TDKR



All significantly better than anything Marvel Studios has made.

And Green Lantern is better than it gets credit for. If MS made it, people would love how silly and over the top it is. I've seen people complain about GL because he made a race track with the ring. Come on now
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X2 IS Marvel....

I will say though that the Avengers was the most overrated blockbuster in recent memory.

From a pure comic book nerd standpoint, it was awesome. From a guy who likes a good story to go with the killing, it fell short.
 
Anung un Rama - I agree with your point about Reynolds as Green Lantern.

I'm a massive X-Force / Deadpool fan, so i'm disappointed about a standalone Deadpool movie being dead now. But also really disappointed because Ryan Reynolds was attached to the flick circa 2010, and he was an absolutely perfect casting choice for Wade Wilson. He was one of the few things I liked in the first Wolverine.

Ippy - I think he was referring to the fact that Fox made X2, not Marvel. Way back when they sold off a bunch of their characters to different studios, hence why you'll never see Spiderman in the Avengers movies, for example.

AFAIK, Marvel's trying to buy all of their movie rights back, but I doubt they'll get them all considering the massive box office hits the properties have become.
 
I saw this on Digg last month. It's a really cool image displaying the different movie rights:

dnxshsd.png
 
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