basics vs. advanced moves

[jasond]

I think we are generally saying the same thing, but might just be arguing semantics with each other. My saying of "there is no such thing as advanced techniques just basic positions and transitions." is a bit of an oversimplification.. I'm implying that instead of thinking in terms of advanced versus basic we should think in position, submission, transition.. Ie you learn the position, then submissions from position, and then transition between different positions and submissions.... does that make a bit more sense?

Definitely. I agree completely.

Also, just so you know where I'm coming from, I teach our beginner / kids classes. So, the new people I'm dealing with are primarily between the ages of 10 - 15.

I definitely feel it's better to start kids off with what I consider the "big 4" (guard, mount, side control, back mount). Not that they can't learn rubber guard, s-mount, cross guard, x-guard, etc. It's just my personal opinion that it's better for kids to start off with what I consider to be the more common, more simple positions.

Also, I don't mean to say they have to "master" any of them; just build a good basis and understanding of each position. After all, as someone else said here, it takes many years and countless hours on the mat to really master all the subtle nuances of a technique.

 

[Commissar]

i agree to the old adage that "the basics wins matches"...but then again, it wouldn't hurt to learn something unorthodox once in awhile to catch your opponent off guard. i think that 'advanced' moves when chopped down, are made up of little basic moves, and when drilled with enough repetition, become 'basic' themselves.

what is your take on this?

The 'basics' are just fundamentals that teach you the first layer of BJJ. Basic armbars, sweeps, passing, some basic chokes... Without these, you're unable to learn advanced moves. That is to say, if you aren't flawless at these, you shouldn't be learning advanced moves because if you can't do a basic move, you almost certainly will not succeed in doing an advanced one.

An advanced move is often just a basic one, with a nifty way of getting to it. For example, an armbar from the rear control is a basic armbar, but to do it, you have a unique hip movement and a sweep before the basic armbar is effective.

 

[TacWar]

Definitely. I agree completely.

Also, just so you know where I'm coming from, I teach our beginner / kids classes. So, the new people I'm dealing with are primarily between the ages of 10 - 15.

I definitely feel it's better to start kids off with what I consider the "big 4" (guard, mount, side control, back mount). Not that they can't learn rubber guard, s-mount, cross guard, x-guard, etc. It's just my personal opinion that it's better for kids to start off with what I consider to be the more common, more simple positions.

Also, I don't mean to say they have to "master" any of them; just build a good basis and understanding of each position. After all, as someone else said here, it takes many years and countless hours on the mat to really master all the subtle nuances of a technique.

yeah we agree...we just fell into the trap of explanations.

 

[blanko]

I wish I knew his name but one of Gordo's black belts used x-guard before Marcelo made it famous. He did it a little differently and didn't hang out there as long as Marcelo does but it was still x-guard.

yea but it's amazing that there are no other young black belts that use the x guard at a high lvl...