Bas: Straight Ankle Lock Won't Injure You

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by b0b, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    In one of the recent Pride events, he said you cannot be injured from the straight ankle lock.
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    Any truth to this? I know it is damn painful, but are there any other moves you could "tough out" and be ok at the end of the day? I would hate to try to tough out a kimura, armbar, heelhook, choke, etc...
     
  2. Stephan Kesting

    Stephan Kesting Green Belt

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    Well I hate to disagree with a former King of Pancrase, but here I go. The straight ankle lock is much, much safer than the heel hook and the toe hold, but YES you can get injured with it. You could break bones, tear ligaments, rupture tendons. It's pretty unlikely, and most of the time you can get away with toughing out some of the pain, but if the guy is strong and uses his body and has the lock cinched properly things can certainly go pop in the night

    Stephan Kesting
    www.grapplearts.com
     
  3. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Eh, just laugh it off....... ;)

    My teacher would agree that the straight ankle lock isn't that dangerous. In fact he told me that many Japanese fighters consider it dishonorable to tap to it; I don't know if this is true or not. However I don't doubt that you can end up with a broken, sprained, or torn ankle afterward if enough pressure is applied. It would have to be either very quickly applied or very strongly pulled though....
     
  4. Lobo

    Lobo Brown Belt

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    I was out month last year from a straight ankle lock. The thing was swollen and bruised something wicked. It still hurts whenever I'm doing the triangle (when the previously injured foot is tucked underneath the knee). So you can get injured but not as badly as a heel hook since the pressure in on the ankle and not on the knee.
     
  5. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Bas has been known to say some questionable things about grappling.

    You can definitely be injured from the straight ankle lock. In my last tournament, I got caught in one early on by a very strong opponent who cranked it as hard as possible. My achilles hurt for about a week. If I had not tapped, he would have done serious damage to my ankle.

    If you think the straight ankle lock is just pain, let someone who knows leg locks crank it on you. Just make sure you have a ride to the ER so you can get your broken ass ankle fixed afterwards.
     
  6. Soid

    Soid Renegade of Funk

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    I always laugh when Bas, while watching a fight, usually finds something a BJJ blackbelt should've done during a submission or a wrestler. Great commentator, and obviously a cool guy, but the shit he says about grappling is more then just questioniable.
     
  7. serima

    serima Green Belt

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    It can hurt as hell , but my instructor also sayd that in a competition you dont tap to a Ankle lock. And i have never heard of enyone getting injured from ankle lock.
     
  8. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    My last sombo comp. somebody tried to sit in my straight leg lock, when i rolled onto my front so I could bridge back easily i managed to pop his ankle and he had to get the thing iced and strapped up, idiot could'nt compete any further that day and was limping when he left. The point is that you shouldn't try to "tough out" an ankle lock as if the guy gets full leverage your ankle will give and you can't really blame your opponent as you had plenty of time to tap.
     
  9. Walt Ruckus

    Walt Ruckus Orange Belt

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    I've had my calf bruised pretty bad by straight ankle lock. Couldn't walk properly for a week. And I was at this ankle lock seminar and learned a way to apply it so that it doesn't just cause pain in the achilles tendon but also cranks the ankle in a way that WILL tear the ligaments if you don't tap. It felt totally different too.

    So yes, Bas is wrong on this one.
     
  10. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

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    You can break the ankle. That being said, you can usually tough it out and escape before any real damage is done. I get people to tap to it all the time and am pretty good at it, since I love leg locks and we are not allowed to to heel hooks in training at my school.
     
  11. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Bas is wrong. The broken bones I obtained in my left foot from not tapping thinking it was just a pain hold are a testament to that. An Achilles lock with the wrist bone into the tendon... just pain. When they lean back and try crush the bones in your feet and rip your foot off... quite a different matter.
     
  12. bigknees.com

    bigknees.com Yellow Belt

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    Anybody who has had this put on them will know that Yes bas is wrong the ankle lock hurts ilke a beatch
     
  13. Half Boston Crab

    Half Boston Crab Purple Belt

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    If you sink it in real tight with your back and hips in the right position, so that you get a lot of momentum when you arch, you could definitely break his ankle and foot. I'd say it's a relatively safe hold though, mostly because it, unlike the heelhook, hurts like hell before anything breaks.
     
  14. Jason Pair

    Jason Pair Amateur Fighter

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    Yep. I couldn't believe when he said that. If it is applied correctly (low on the leg/ankle with the wristbone.. proper hip and back control ect..) it can very easily mess a guys ankle up.

    I have a perfect video on vhs tape where this guy tried falling back into a 'achilies' onto me, I positioned my leg to defend countered with an achilies ankle lock.. and well the look on his face about a half second before I feel a crack then hear the tap/scream as he realizes he can't tough it out is priceless.
     
  15. Hamit Aktas

    Hamit Aktas Amateur Fighter

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    I'd NEVER tap to that submission. Bas is right. I mean, yeah you can "injure" yourself. It hurts afterwards. But it's not like an armbar where you break your arm. I've let people put that sub on me and I've never tapped to it. I've let a BIG, strong guy crank it as hard as he possible could. Sure it hurt like hell, but that's all. If you can handle pain, you can handle that sub. My muscles hurt for awhile after he did it. But I was ok to continue grappling after a minute.

    Unless Bob Sapp x10 does that move with alot of leverage and snaps my bone in half, there's only pain in that sub.
     
  16. Hamit Aktas

    Hamit Aktas Amateur Fighter

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    Gotta add that it's a different thing if your foot is being bent toes downwards. But if all that is happening is his forearm against your leg, there is only pain.
     
  17. b00m3r

    b00m3r White Belt

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    Achilles lock does not equal straight ankle. The achilles is just a pain move where they're digging their wrist into your achilles. The straight ankle is where they're leaning back and placing downward pressure on the top part of your foot. That will absolutely cause some damage.
     
  18. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

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    I disagree with Bas on this one also. I have heard some ankles start popping from a straight ankle lock.

    Most of the time yes its just pain but IF you get the hold correctly and trun on your side or go belly down you can seriously mess up someones ankle.
     
  19. Bas is Bas. he can do many things normal people cannot. many bullshit moves work for Bas and if you'd try them you'll never get again thing from it.. then he'll walk up to someone and tap them with it repeatedly.

    he's Bas.

    for the rest of us mortals, an achillies lock/stright ankle lock can break the ligaments in the front of your foot and ankle or at the least sprain it. if you can force your foot through past his armpit a ways, then the lock is just pain from his forearm blade in your calf muscle and that is what i think he means don't injure you.
     
  20. i think you're a little confused. both holds are the same. you're just cutting it in half, 50% on each one.

    the point of the hold is both your forearm on the achillies for pain and your armpit is far enough back on the foot/toes so when you lean back it stretches and breaks the ligaments on the front of the foot/ankle.

    if someone is doing this hold is trying to "guillotine" the ankle, then yes it's just a pain hold and is impropper. doing it wrong doesnt make it a different name.
     

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