Movies AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR v.11

[SmilinDesperado]

I'm just saying there's no consensus amongst the team on what means are acceptable to stop thanos and pretty much all the conflict and motivation behind their actions is about preserving their relationships. The rest of the universe being at stake is an afterthought to these relationships not ending which felt a bit off. Every other avengers movie leading up to this focused on that so I thought maybe the team would have moved on to bigger stakes than just losing each other.

The Starlord sucker punch was absolutely retarded writing. There's no arguing that. He helped come up with the plan. A one in 14 million shot was seconds from working. Everyone and their cousin, including Starlord, knows a punch from a normal dude is less than a tickle to Thanos. It's literally akin to patting him on the cheek. They went to great lengths to make star lord the biggest idiot in the galaxy and succeeded. He gets most of his team killed. If you want to portray his rage at gamora dying find a less stupid means, it was a terrible way to end that battle scene.

Why does there need to be a consensus amongst the team? There's a lot of players with a lot of different motivations, and a lot of these guys are working together/meeting each other for the first time.
And not everyone is motivated by only stopping Thanos.
Thor wants revenge. Drax wants revenge. Hulk won't come out. Strange wants to protect his time stone. Scarlet Witch wants to save Vision. Peter wants to find Gamora. They all want to save the universe as well, but there isn't just one vision on how to do this.
They show and say this in the movie with Vision and Gamora trying to sacrifice them while Quill and Cap argue against it.
I think you are really downplaying the relationships here. Of course these people want to save the universe, but they aren't robots. They are people. And your'e expecting them to easily just KILL somebody that they love.
It's kind of hard to come to a team consensus on something that is an individual choice. The mind stone was connected to Vision's life, as was the soul stone connected to Gamora's. They have more at stake, and more input on what happens than anyone else.

Also, how much did the heroes really know? The only ones who really knew and understood what Thanos was doing was probably just Gamora, Thor, and maybe Banner. No one else knew who Thanos was, or the power of the infinity stone. What were they going to talk about? All they knew is that a big bad was coming, and that they needed to stop him. It would make no sense for them to start sacrificing lives with the little information they had.

I'm not going to defend the Starlord punch too much. I didn't like it. I thought it was stupid as well. But it wasn't a dealbreaker for me. I was definitely like "wtf Quill", but it wasn't like it was completely not understandable, or even not like Quill.
When you just find out that the guy in front of you killed your girl---yea...sense be damned, you can do crazy shit. Family members go after murderers in court rooms in front of a room full of police in real life. And Quill did a similar thing in GoTG2 when he found out that Ego had killed his mother.

 

[KnightTemplar]

You're jumbling together things, simplyfing characters and actions to try and convince yourself that you're right here.
People, characters are not one dimensional. And just because Vision does one thing, doesnt' mean Gamora should do the same just because they're both heroes in the same movie.

Killing Gamora was completely a LAST resort situation. Starlord did not want to do it. He only promised because Gamora made him, and he knew she was serious about it. She knows Thanos, and she tells him that being captured by Thanos would be worse than death. (for the universe)
Look at the situation he was in. He is face to face with Thanos. Thanos literally has Gamora by the neck. He has the space stone, so he can disappear with her to anywhere he wants.
What are his choices? He either lets Thanos take her, or he shoots Gamora, like she asked.

He could not be sure that she was dead, so of course he was going to go look for Thanos and her. At that point, he thinks she still could be alive. Once he realizes that Thanos kills her, he loses his shit.
Just because he accepted that he would kill her if he HAD to, that doesn't mean he accepts some other guy just murdering her. lol i mean, was he supposed to have no feeling about her being murdered? he was just supposed to be like "well, she was going to die anyways" This is a girl that he loves, not a car.

Vision is not begging "the witch". Lol He is pleading with his lover..to KILL him. You say that as if it's an easy ask, and an easy request to complete.
And do you really think Captain was talking about sacrificing PEOPLE for the greater good?

A key thing you seem to forgetting is that they are heroes. A hero is not going to take the easy way out. This is not the Punisher. If they have to sacrifice a life, or kill someone, it would be the absolute last resort.
And when it was the actual last resort, both Starlord and Scarlet Witch did what they were asked to do for the greater good.

The Avengers should have drafted this guy as a Free Agent. Problem solved

 

[SmilinDesperado]

The Avengers should have drafted this guy as a Free Agent. Problem solved

View attachment 379119

Cap would very much disapprove

 

[KnightTemplar]

Cap would very much disapprove
View attachment 379121

Yeah, Frank does have a soft spot for Cap

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Yeah, Frank does have a soft spot for Cap

View attachment 379127

hahah Touche'
Do you know where that's from?

 

[KnightTemplar]

hahah Touche'
Do you know where that's from?

Not sure. I know Frank kills Cap in, "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe", but I don't think it's from that. The artwork is different.

 

[taurus]

Was not expecting that high of a score considering most of your post is made up of complaints! Presumably those are minor gripes and overall you thought it was great

As i said, most of my ramblings and complaints are nitpicking. Me not liking a character doesn't have anything with how i rank the score, it's just the actors portrayal or creative freedom i don't like, but maybe that was just the point of that portrayal (kind of like Skyler in Breaking Bad). The main point is the story and the execution of the theme, which i thought were great. If the acting/pacing/visuals were visibly subpar, then i'd rank it lower.

<{cruzshake}>

Good talk.

lol wtf? Cap is a bully now? you must be smoking some good shit if thats what youve taken from watching the character. If he was a bully he would just rip Starks head off without the suit, he's trying to even things up. Nice guy that Steve Rogers.

he didnt think the information would ever become relevant, so kept it secret to protect Tony from getting upset(which he later admitted was a mistake).

honestly, if you dont like Cap you need more than hugs...... pretty sure you need slapped lol

No need for personal insults, i'm just stating my impression. Do I NEED to like Cap just because you do?

To me, if you know someone is deeply affected by the loss of his parents (which Tony is), and you know significant information on it, by not disclosing that information, you don't get the right to call yourself a friend to that certain someone.

Just my $0.02

 

[MayhemMonkey]

As i said, most of my ramblings and complaints are nitpicking. Me not liking a character doesn't have anything with how i rank the score, it's just the actors portrayal or creative freedom i don't like, but maybe that was just the point of that portrayal (kind of like Skyler in Breaking Bad). The main point is the story and the execution of the theme, which i thought were great. If the acting/pacing/visuals were visibly subpar, then i'd rank it lower.

Good talk.



No need for personal insults, i'm just stating my impression. Do I NEED to like Cap just because you do?

To me, if you know someone is deeply affected by the loss of his parents (which Tony is), and you know significant information on it, by not disclosing that information, you don't get the right to call yourself a friend to that certain someone.

Just my $0.02

lol I didnt insult you... I suggested you needed slapped as a joke. calm down man

how many times has Tony brought up his story about his parents dying to Cap? how would Cap know it deeply affects him? If you dont disclose it because you think it will protect that person then yes, you can call yourself a good friend. not disclosing something isnt the same as lying about something. oh and if thats your reason for not liking Cap then again.... you have issues lol

 

[KnightTemplar]

lol I didnt insult you... I suggested you needed slapped as a joke. calm down man

how many times has Tony brought up his story about his parents dying to Cap? how would Cap know it deeply affects him? If you dont disclose it because you think it will protect that person then yes, you can call yourself a good friend. not disclosing something isnt the same as lying about something. oh and if thats your reason for not liking Cap then again.... you have issues lol

I was #TeamCap during Civil War...right up to the point where it's revealed that Bucky killed Tony's parents. And that Cap knew about it. After that, I wouldn't have blamed Iron Man if he'd killed them both. In his place, I would have.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I was #TeamCap during Civil War...right up to the point where it's revealed that Bucky killed Tony's parents. And that Cap knew about it. After that, I wouldn't have blamed Iron Man if he'd killed them both. In his place I would have.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Sorry, bro, but I only play for #TeamHetro

 

[LilMountain]

Sorry, bro, but I only play for #TeamHetro

View attachment 379179

Pretty sure Iron Man and Spiderman....

 

[KnightTemplar]

Pretty sure Iron Man and Spiderman....

Nah, Tony doesn't swing that way.

Now, Aunt May on the other hand...

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Sorry, bro, but I only play for #TeamHetro

View attachment 379179

 

[LilMountain]

hahah Touche'
Do you know where that's from?

Not sure. I know Frank kills Cap in, "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe", but I don't think it's from that. The artwork is different.

Marvel Universe vs Wolverine I think

 

[Magooglie]

Pretty sure Iron Man and Spiderman....

Doctor Strange was so confused by their relationship.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I'm not going to defend the Starlord punch too much. I didn't like it. I thought it was stupid as well. But it wasn't a dealbreaker for me. I was definitely like "wtf Quill", but it wasn't like it was completely not understandable, or even not like Quill.
When you just find out that the guy in front of you killed your girl---yea...sense be damned, you can do crazy shit. Family members go after murderers in court rooms in front of a room full of police in real life. And Quill did a similar thing in GoTG2 when he found out that Ego had killed his mother.

As you say Quill is arguably the most impulsive of all of the good guys in the film(maybe Drax?) and generally the guardians are much less focused on selfless heroism, there films up until now haven't really been about taking out a threat without personal dramatic motivation.

 

[taurus]

lol I didnt insult you... I suggested you needed slapped as a joke. calm down man

how many times has Tony brought up his story about his parents dying to Cap? how would Cap know it deeply affects him? If you dont disclose it because you think it will protect that person then yes, you can call yourself a good friend. not disclosing something isnt the same as lying about something. oh and if thats your reason for not liking Cap then again.... you have issues lol

OK, my bad, for the insult part.

Back to topic, I didn't say I don't like Cap (as pictured in the MCU) bcs of that. What i dislike the most is his hypocrisy. Great example IMO is the Sokovia accords scene.



He states that he doesn't want ANY REGULATION WHATSOEVER over the Avengers, bcs "the governments have agendas". That's a fair point, to be honest. But not if you have your own agenda (not to mention that Avengers have their own agenda, regardless of it being good or bad), which is to cover for Bucky (just on Bucky's word, bcs why not, he was my friend 60-70 years ago before i became frozen in ace, and before he was subjected to secret supersoldier, superhypnosis, experiments which resulted in him being the most prolific assassin in the world) while keeping it from the group.

He wants to run freely as possible, doing whatever he wants, completely free of charge, regardless of outcomes? That doesn't sound right, and is not in the spirit of Cap America. Yes, i can understand his paranoia in a way that certain things did occur in Winter Soldier, but still.

That was the reasoning behind my "self righteous" statement. He wants to do something on his own, without discussing it with the group, he goes on and does it, thinks nothing of it if someone objects it. He thinks someone else doesn't have to do something, he attacks them immediately. Look at the video above for how he says to Iron Man "You've already made up your mind". Get off your freakin' high horse, IT'S YOU that already made up his mind. Tony/Rhodes/Natasha, hell even Vision all state very good arguments for (at least) discussing the option of giving a certain amount of control to someone. But not Mr Perfect. His attitude is that he is always right, which I believe is inherently wrong, and I cannot say i can think highly of anyone that thinks they are always right.

The "language" bit in the Age of Ultron was another good example. Do as I say, not as I do kind of thing. Well, Iron Man sees right through it and is the only one not afraid to call him up on it. OK, that one is a weaker argument, maybe i'm reading too much into that tiny bit.

 

[LilMountain]

OK, my bad, for the insult part.

Back to topic, I didn't say I don't like Cap (as pictured in the MCU) bcs of that. What i dislike the most is his hypocrisy. Great example IMO is the Sokovia accords scene.



He states that he doesn't want ANY REGULATION WHATSOEVER over the Avengers, bcs "the governments have agendas". That's a fair point, to be honest. But not if you have your own agenda (not to mention that Avengers have their own agenda, regardless of it being good or bad), which is to cover for Bucky (just on Bucky's word, bcs why not, he was my friend 60-70 years ago before i became frozen in ace, and before he was subjected to secret supersoldier, superhypnosis, experiments which resulted in him being the most prolific assassin in the world) while keeping it from the group.

He wants to run freely as possible, doing whatever he wants, completely free of charge, regardless of outcomes? That doesn't sound right, and is not in the spirit of Cap America. Yes, i can understand his paranoia in a way that certain things did occur in Winter Soldier, but still.

That was the reasoning behind my "self righteous" statement. He wants to do something on his own, without discussing it with the group, he goes on and does it, thinks nothing of it if someone objects it. He thinks someone else doesn't have to do something, he attacks them immediately. Look at the video above for how he says to Iron Man "You've already made up your mind". Get off your freakin' high horse, IT'S YOU that already made up his mind. Tony/Rhodes/Natasha, hell even Vision all state very good arguments for (at least) discussing the option of giving a certain amount of control to someone. But not Mr Perfect. His attitude is that he is always right, which I believe is inherently wrong, and I cannot say i can think highly of anyone that thinks they are always right.

The "language" bit in the Age of Ultron was another good example. Do as I say, not as I do kind of thing. Well, Iron Man sees right through it and is the only one not afraid to call him up on it. OK, that one is a weaker argument, maybe i'm reading too much into that tiny bit.

Everyone has their own agenda, the point is it's not law that all others must abide by or be criminals

 

[MayhemMonkey]

OK, my bad, for the insult part.

Back to topic, I didn't say I don't like Cap (as pictured in the MCU) bcs of that. What i dislike the most is his hypocrisy. Great example IMO is the Sokovia accords scene.



He states that he doesn't want ANY REGULATION WHATSOEVER over the Avengers, bcs "the governments have agendas". That's a fair point, to be honest. But not if you have your own agenda (not to mention that Avengers have their own agenda, regardless of it being good or bad), which is to cover for Bucky (just on Bucky's word, bcs why not, he was my friend 60-70 years ago before i became frozen in ace, and before he was subjected to secret supersoldier, superhypnosis, experiments which resulted in him being the most prolific assassin in the world) while keeping it from the group.

He wants to run freely as possible, doing whatever he wants, completely free of charge, regardless of outcomes? That doesn't sound right, and is not in the spirit of Cap America. Yes, i can understand his paranoia in a way that certain things did occur in Winter Soldier, but still.

That was the reasoning behind my "self righteous" statement. He wants to do something on his own, without discussing it with the group, he goes on and does it, thinks nothing of it if someone objects it. He thinks someone else doesn't have to do something, he attacks them immediately. Look at the video above for how he says to Iron Man "You've already made up your mind". Get off your freakin' high horse, IT'S YOU that already made up his mind. Tony/Rhodes/Natasha, hell even Vision all state very good arguments for (at least) discussing the option of giving a certain amount of control to someone. But not Mr Perfect. His attitude is that he is always right, which I believe is inherently wrong, and I cannot say i can think highly of anyone that thinks they are always right.

The "language" bit in the Age of Ultron was another good example. Do as I say, not as I do kind of thing. Well, Iron Man sees right through it and is the only one not afraid to call him up on it. OK, that one is a weaker argument, maybe i'm reading too much into that tiny bit.

was he right about Bucky though? Was he right to stand against the Sokovia accords?(remember that even War Machine now wishes he never signed them). Also of course its in the spirit of Captain America.... its a concept from the comics and Cap was against it in them also. He believes in freedom, and that isnt freedom in his eyes.

also are you really going to mention AoU? you know the movie where Tony unleashes an advanced AI on the world, that almost leads to the entire world being destroyed.

no matter what happens in the MCU..... Cap>>>Iron Man, and he always will be