AVENGERS: ENDGAME (Dragonlord's Review)

[MikeMcMann]

If anyone deserved a Happy ending it was MCU Cap even if I highly differ from Evans political views he did a great job as Steve Rogers.

Also...

STEVE GOT HIS DANCE, MOTHERFUCKERS.

Sorry, I had to get that out. Old man Steve was well done and, of course, I cried.

Well they also opened the door with that to another Cap retro movie or two should they ever want to make one or two. Not saying they do or ever will but that door is now open.

We have about 70 years of a healthy Cap and Peggy aging together and for sure fighting battles for the USA and early Shield. Cap can't just go back and stay out of the fight.

 

[Tomie]

I also loved the clever way they brought Loki back to life.

I don't recall this, that happened?

 

[anarchy_12]

When Tony basically gave him all kinds of shit in the beginning and Steve just took it...that was some prime Cap to me.

When Cap went immediately went to Tony after he was rescued by Carol seemed to me like everything they went there are now all water under the bridge. Then Tony saying that “we lost the kid” felt that he just needed someone to comfort him after what he’s been through. Then everything settled down and he went straight Austin 3:16 promo towards Cap. I thought that was a nice touch considering Tony was left in space, with a pregnant wife still on earth not knowing if she was dusted, saw his apprentice die, and of course the whole bucky killing his parents deal still lingers with him. And yes, Americas Ass took that on the chin. That was a realistic scene well executed by the Russos.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Just got back; When the back up arrives via swirling shit.... yeah, Thats. Whats. Up. Actually trumped Captain Thor for me, which was just amazing af. Nice nod to Secret Wars Hulk. Nebula greatest MCU character confirmed.

I've gotta watch it again before I give it a final score, but my euphoria has it somewhere around a 13/10 right now.

gripes; small but gotta get 'em off my chest.

Love that they let Thor kill Thanos, but felt they took his moping a little too far. Didn't get how Thor was supposedly scared when he was 2/3 vs. Thanos up to that point. Also didn't like the shade they threw at him by crediting Stormbreaker with the kill.

Happens in the comics, too, but I really don't like inconsistent powers.
Thanos with 3 gems was almost beat by IM & the GotG, but Thanos with no gems was able to shrug off TWO Thors AND more advanced, informed IM? And Mar-Vell, who is still just really unlikeable, shakes off that headbutt?
Loved Wanda doing work, but again... the power inconsistencies.

Felt they rushed the passing of the torch at the end, but loved it.
That lack of respect for the space time continuum, doe.

Also felt it should have been Clint. I think we all did. I won't tag MikeMcMann just in case he didn't see it.

The all women scene was kind of cringy.

Asgardians of the Galaxy .... Nebula, Mantis, Draxx....AND THOR? OMG! just take my money. All of it.
Impressed that they didn't resurrect Gamora, but excited that that the search for Gamora is a good segway for this movie.
Hopefully they introduce Angela.

"...Also felt it should have been Clint. I think we all did. I won't tag MikeMcMann just in case he didn't see it..."

The Universe is secure in Stage 2 because the Top Avenger has survived. I love that he went on a John Wick, dog, type run through crime families after they killed his family.

But in all seriousness, it was clear Widow always felt she owed Cint some major debt. That she felt he saved her in the past and gave her this new life. It was then required that for the proper end of her character for her to sacrifice herself to now save him and return him to his wife and kids.

Glad you loved the movie Anung.

 

[PRIDEWASBETTER]

I don't recall this, that happened?

Hahaha no.

 

[Thanos]

You have my respect Stark

 

[TrueBias]

It's the wearer's intent that counts. The snap is just a means to activate the wearer's wish whatever that may be.

Guess i missed that explanation.

 

[Shael]

Does anyone know of Stan Lee got to watch the finished film?

 

[TrueBias]

I only rate it that low because my expectations were that high. And I felt justified in that expectation because Infinity Wars was that good to me.

I walked out of Infinity Wars thinking to myself that I could walk right into the next showing and enjoy it just as much. I went the next day to see it again. Wouldn't even consider it for this one, and trust me nobody is more disappointed in that than myself.

Yeah, ill agree with ya there in replayability. That was the ONE thing i noticed from Infinity that made me feel like a kid again.

The more i think of endgame...the more i feel unfulfilled. I want to say disappointing, but it wasnt. On a different note, i hate funeral style endings like that. Ironman dies and we got another 10-15 min of that then seeing cap all old, ugh. If i were to watch this again, id turn it off after ironman takes his last breath. Infinity ends on a 30 sec scene of Thanos looking at a sunset. That was perfect.

It does stick to ya though.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I agree. As they say, there are a lot of scenes where all men are together and no one complains. then they put one scene with the girls together and people complain. I kinda understand though in a way that people are scared of the TLJ effect, but this entire movie didn't feel SJW at all.

I'd agree the film doesn't really suffer much from it although I suspect that's partly because the Russo's were sneaky in dealing with the demands of suits to include Captain Marvel, they did include her but she's largely irrelevant to the plot.

The problem I'd say is that you've had a movement in recent years that views the be all and end all of inclusive film making as "power", I mean this used to be the domain of B-movies(mostly staring Milla Jolovic) were a female character "kicking ass" was a stand in for actually having any kind of depth. I think its the result of the establishments recent obsession with tokenism, that social problems can be solved by representation alone regardless of say what a politicians actual politics are or indeed what depth a film actually has.

Real representation of women or minority groups onscreen shouldn't just be the case of casting them or showing "power" it should be a case of creating characters/plots of the same substance as those involving white males. In reality Marvel actually had plenty of this for female characters well before Captain Marvel and IMHO she represents one of if not the worst written characters in the franchise thus far. Imagine a film were Tony Stark is an arrogant bastard but theres absolutely zero self awareness of this, no lesson to learn or character arc just him showing "power" and being cocky, such a character would not be as beloved as the actual Stark we got.

 

[Smokes]

Woke up and want to lower my score to 5. The playback in my head doesnt have alot of parts I would rewatch like IW. To me the death scenes were blah, the fight/battle scenes looked bad compared to IW and Rangarock, the length and lack of comedy hurts the movie for me. Still worth a watch but not a rewatch.

 

[minute bull]

Hahaha no.

I think he refers to the past-Loki who escaped somewhere with the Tesseract.

 

[GoldenAzazel]

For those who didnt "see any wokeness", these are some examples of the top of my head:
- One of the first scenes is a guy (one of the Russos) talking about going on a date with another guy even though he could be talking about A MILLION different scenarios that has affected him after the snap happened. They HAD TO drive home that he was gay to tick off the "gay box".
- They turn masculine, sex symbol Thor into a "fat, angry, white, male gamer" type who is useless and just runs around crying.
- They call both Ant-Man and Star-Lord idiots for no reason really.
- They turn masculine, wrecking machine Hulk into a goofy beta nerd.
- You have them make the "female avengers" lineup that stuck out like a sore thumb and was just dumb in and of itself. As far as I know a battlefield isnt segregated by gender.
- Thanos trashes the original 3 superheroes (one being a god), yet Captain Marvel is unfazed when he headbutts her and is almost breaking his hand apart. She also comes in and saves the day like a good Mary Sue in the end of the movie. Its not just bad storytelling, its completely unnecessary. All the things she did in the end of the movie should have been done by Scarlet Witch who actually had a personal grudge against Thanos and is tearing him apart to the point that he forces his ship to open fire on his own troops to get away. They could just have made Scarlet Witch hulk out like in Age of Ultron and use a giant blast to disable the weapons on the ship. Then you'd still have a female superhero do the things and it would actually fit in with the story.
- They basically went all "masculinity bad, women good".

And I would like to go on say that Nebula and Black Widow (as well as Wandas scene with Thanos) + RDJ were the best parts of the movie so I am not a "woman hating incel". I think its awesome when female roles are well made and fit with the story because good characters are good characters, regardless of gender. When you have a Mary Sue like Captain Marvel just to score some easy woke points, thats what I have a problem with (or bashing men to make women seem better).

How would you have done the gay character differently? He was such a tiny part of the movie. He was just a gay dude talking about his life experience like any other normal person. It wasn't jammed into our faces at all. The fact that he was gay had nothing to do the scene, it was about the person moving on and finding happiness after a tragedy. If he was straight you wouldn't have given a shit lol

Thor is completely over burdened with guilt for not killing Thanos, and it drove him to alcoholism and made him a recluse. Sure it's played up for laughs in some scenes, but it's done for a reason.

Ant-Man and Star Lord both act like goofy idiots sometimes. It's been a character traits of theirs since the beginning.

Hulk is just Hulk with Banner's personality and mind. Again that is Banner, it has been for a long time. Hulk could still kick 99% of the characters assess.

That part with all the chick heroes wasn't very logical, you're right. It was just a cool for some people to have and easily forgettable if you didn't give a shit.

I don't really like Captain Marvel either, but her holding back Thanos before getting punched away with the power stone still makes sense imo. She's obviously way more powerful than Captain America and he did a similar thing in Endgame when Thanos had 5 stones.

There's still plenty of masculine characters there, but characters need to have flaws and go through growth. That's one of the reasons I don't really like Captain Marvel. She doesn't have any proper flaws and the ones she does have like her arrogance, they're not treated or recognised as flaws, they're treated as strengths.

I don't think you're a woman basher or incel or anything like that anyway. You're probably a good dude and we just have a different way of seeing things. Maybe I'm just not as easily offended or something. I dunno.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yeah, ill agree with ya there in replayability. That was the ONE thing i noticed from Infinity that made me feel like a kid again.

The more i think of endgame...the more i feel unfulfilled. I want to say disappointing, but it wasnt. On a different note, i hate funeral style endings like that. Ironman dies and we got another 10-15 min of that then seeing cap all old, ugh. If i were to watch this again, id turn it off after ironman takes his last breath. Infinity ends on a 30 sec scene of Thanos looking at a sunset. That was perfect.

It does stick to ya though.

The differences in ending of course is that IW was a cliffhanger climax and we see the dramatic after effects of it at the start of End Game were as here they were covered in the same film. The nature of the plot as well did mean that a lot of the introspection with Thanos and his daughters came earlier in the story.

Generally I think the Russo's stand out as directors who know their characters and the audiences attachment to them, they have them behave in a believable fashion most of the time and devote them the correct amount of dramatic space. The obvious comparison would be Peter Jackson and Lord of the Rings which itself had a lengthy ending that was IMHO well justified. The alternative for me would be whats happened with the recent Starwars sequels, films that really do not know or care much about the characters involved in them, hence often getting their reactions to situations wrong or their simply lacking any substance at all. The first two ring true on viewing for me where as the latter rings false, the rebels celebrating on the Falcon after the end of Last Jedi for example feels dramatically wrong.

 

[PRIDEWASBETTER]

I think he refers to the past-Loki who escaped somewhere with the Tesseract.

That's true, but he's still in that time. Presumably, it was fixed when Steve dropped them off.

 

[TrueBias]

I really didn't see the SJW agenda some of you are complaining about. There was one scene where all the female heroes were on screen at once. Big deal lmao

Thats the point. It stood out like a turd in a punch pole. Totally unnecessarily harmless.

 

[Nesruk]

How would you have done the gay character differently? He was such a tiny part of the movie. He was just a gay dude talking about his life experience like any other normal person. It wasn't jammed into our faces at all. The fact that he was gay had nothing to do the scene, it was about the person moving on and finding happiness after a tragedy. If he was straight you wouldn't have given a shit lol

Thor is completely over burdened with guilt for not killing Thanos, and it drove him to alcoholism and made him a recluse. Sure it's played up for laughs in some scenes, but it's done for a reason.

Ant-Man and Star Lord both act like goofy idiots sometimes. It's been a character traits of theirs since the beginning.

Hulk is just Hulk with Banner's personality and mind. Again that is Banner, it has been for a long time. Hulk could still kick 99% of the characters assess.

That part with all the chick heroes wasn't very logical, you're right. It was just a cool for some people to have and easily forgettable if you didn't give a shit.

I don't really like Captain Marvel either, but her holding back Thanos before getting punched away with the power stone still makes sense imo. She's obviously way more powerful than Captain America and he did a similar thing in Endgame when Thanos had 5 stones.

There's still plenty of masculine characters there, but characters need to have flaws and go through growth. That's one of the reasons I don't really like Captain Marvel. She doesn't have any proper flaws and the ones she does have like her arrogance, they're not treated or recognised as flaws, they're treated as strengths.

I don't think you're a woman basher or incel or anything like that anyway. You're probably a good dude and we just have a different way of seeing things. Maybe I'm just not as easily offended or something. I dunno.

My whole point is: there was no reason to make his sexuality a point in that conversation. But they did, to score woke points.

Thor: It would be fine if they did it in the start with Thor and then when he joined up he became regular Thor, but no. He had to be a punching bag throughout the movie.

Hulk: they made him a bitch version of who he has been in all the movies and all comics.

Was there a single female character that they broke down or ruined in this movie? No. The closest was Black Widow who was a bit down in the first scene with Cap but then she put on her big girl boots and went to war.

When there is enough sand in a pile it becomes a heap. All the men in the movie except for RDJ and Cap were emasculated while all the women were played up. Thats how I see it at least.

And like I said, I love female characters as long as they are good characters and I would even love to see a female avengers movie if it made sense and it was well written. The problem is when they start bashing and emasculating men to promote women. Its just cheap and lazy.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

Yes, but it's not really about his age, height, or gender, there should at the very least be a skill to using the armor.
No one should be able to just pop into the suit and do whatever one of the GOAT Avengers can do.
Potts was also on the juice, and was banned from competing by USADA.

Tony was intentionally building her the suit, so he probably taught her how to use iron man armor in the 5 year time span.

The armor's AI is probably designed with a fighting program to assist the wearer in battle and for aiming accuracy.

 

[Nesruk]

How would you have done the gay character differently? He was such a tiny part of the movie. He was just a gay dude talking about his life experience like any other normal person. It wasn't jammed into our faces at all. The fact that he was gay had nothing to do the scene, it was about the person moving on and finding happiness after a tragedy. If he was straight you wouldn't have given a shit lol

Thor is completely over burdened with guilt for not killing Thanos, and it drove him to alcoholism and made him a recluse. Sure it's played up for laughs in some scenes, but it's done for a reason.

Ant-Man and Star Lord both act like goofy idiots sometimes. It's been a character traits of theirs since the beginning.

Hulk is just Hulk with Banner's personality and mind. Again that is Banner, it has been for a long time. Hulk could still kick 99% of the characters assess.

That part with all the chick heroes wasn't very logical, you're right. It was just a cool for some people to have and easily forgettable if you didn't give a shit.

I don't really like Captain Marvel either, but her holding back Thanos before getting punched away with the power stone still makes sense imo. She's obviously way more powerful than Captain America and he did a similar thing in Endgame when Thanos had 5 stones.

There's still plenty of masculine characters there, but characters need to have flaws and go through growth. That's one of the reasons I don't really like Captain Marvel. She doesn't have any proper flaws and the ones she does have like her arrogance, they're not treated or recognised as flaws, they're treated as strengths.

I don't think you're a woman basher or incel or anything like that anyway. You're probably a good dude and we just have a different way of seeing things. Maybe I'm just not as easily offended or something. I dunno.

I might be too sensitive it too for all I know but I am out after this because in my view its heading down a bad path in regards to quality.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

2014 Gamora was dusted at the end.

She got dusted with Tony's snap.

2014 Gamora is still alive. You can see Quill trying to search for her at the end.

I'm not a fan of these time travel/multiverse loopholes that allow a character that died to come back but I still like the fact that Infinity War's Gamora remained dead dead.