International Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines

[flashNsmash]

I'm assuming there are no plans to upgrade Guam naval capacity ?

don't build anything on guam that you aren't willing to lose in the first 24 hrs of a shooting war w/ the pla

 

[flashNsmash]

i think they might be installing aegis ashore but that will take years and can still be easily overwhelmed

 

[GhostZ06]

i think they might be installing aegis ashore but that will take years and can still be easily overwhelmed

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-missile-launchers-and-mobile-command-centers


also its looking like they might incorperate a high KW laser system with it.

 

[flashNsmash]

lol i'm imagining some big hatch opening and the bridge of a ticonderoga-class cruiser popping out

 

[reveler]

australia very interested in standing up to china, while not being very interested in how much they are already becoming like china.

 

[Ruprecht]

So what your saying is that there is potential for future expansion on your shipyard and establishing a nuclear industry.

Nuclear industry is doubtful in the next 10 years, but beyond that, assuming there's not another major nuclear accident, it's possible.
Nuclear power had only just started to be publicly addressed by politicians again in the late '00s, after Chernobyl had killed it in the mid eighties. Fukushima shut that down hard (not as bad in impact as Chernobyl, but worse in terms of nuclear power's public image because it was the Japanese, not Russians/Ukrainians).

Expansion of the local shipyard (the submarines will be built in my state) would certainly be necessary if they choose to go with Virginia class submarines, but for the Astute class it would be minimal. Which is one of the reasons the Astute class seems more likely. It's more the associated industries which should get a big boost. The wharf was built to be readily expanded to accommodate ships with a length of 200m and the shiplift can be expanded to 210m with a lifting capacity of 20,000t.
It's politically necessary for the Liberal party to build the subs here (SA), because they killed local car manufacturing by Mitsubishi, Holden and the associated industries (or to be fair, they hammered the final nail in the coffin).

 

[GhostZ06]

Nuclear industry is doubtful in the next 10 years, but beyond that, assuming there's not another major nuclear accident, it's possible.
Nuclear power had only just started to be publicly addressed by politicians again in the late '00s, after Chernobyl had killed it in the mid eighties. Fukushima shut that down hard (not as bad in impact as Chernobyl, but worse in terms of nuclear power's public image because it was the Japanese, not Russians/Ukrainians).

Expansion of the local shipyard (the submarines will be built in my state) would certainly be necessary if they choose to go with Virginia class submarines, but for the Astute class it would be minimal. Which is one of the reasons the Astute class seems more likely. It's more the associated industries which should get a big boost. The wharf was built to be readily expanded to accommodate ships with a length of 200m and the shiplift can be expanded to 210m with a lifting capacity of 20,000t.
It's politically necessary for the Liberal party to build the subs here, because they killed local car manufacturing by Mitsubishi, Holden and the associated industries (or to be fair, they hammered the final nail in the coffin).

i was hoping those SMR's would be the future for American energy(though it looks like we're making a push for fusion instead), but seeing how politician's in the US are basically retarded i dont know, that seems hazey.

 

[X Factor]

yeah just a couple of old sub tenders there now i believe?

Yup couple of old bones for sure.

 

[flashNsmash]

Yup couple of old bones for sure.

gotta give credit to those crews and the lads in the shops, serious submarine maintenance is damn near impossible to conduct alongside

 

[Arkain2K]

It would be cheaper and more logistically feasible to make the trip all the way to the west coast of the continental US. There isn’t any dry dock in Guam anymore. Plus the contractors and equipment would be FAR cheaper to fly into say San Diego instead rather than a Guam or Hawaii.

Dry docks are for major maintenance and repair on the hull. Subs don't actually need to leave water for the regular scheduled maintenance that takes place inside the vessel, such as the reactors and engines.

It's certainly would be cheaper in the continental U.S for sure, but then Australia can also just buy the smaller and less capable but also significantly cheaper Astute class (with a new reactor ofcourse) and sail all the way to the U.K for maintenance.

Either way, the biggest hurdle would be production though. The shipyards in the U.S and U.K are up to their neck with work orders from their military with barely any capacity left for anything else.

PS: It's rather amusing that Australia only have one University program in the entire country that produces 5 new nuclear engineers per year, and they are civilians. That will need to change soon or else there will be submarines with no qualified engineer on board to run them.

 

[GhostZ06]

Dry docks are for major maintenance and repair on the hull. Subs don't actually need to leave water for the regular scheduled maintenance that takes place inside the vessel, such as the reactors and engines.

It's certainly would be cheaper in the continental U.S for sure, but then Australia can also just buy the smaller and less capable but also significantly cheaper Astute class (with a new reactor ofcourse) and sail all the way to the U.K for maintenance.

Either way, the biggest hurdle would be production though. The shipyards in the U.S and U.K are up to their neck with work orders from their military with barely any capacity left for anything else.

PS: It's rather amusing that Australia only have one University program in the entire country that produces 5 new nuclear engineers per year. That will need to change soon.

i think thats why we are giving them data. Astute class subs are insanely small compared to the Block V Virginia classes. Also the UK is making the dreadnought class's as we speak

 

[Arkain2K]

No easy options in Australia’s quest for nuclear submarines
Australia has a deadline of 2036 for the acquisition of new submarines.
08 Nov 2021​

Lead ship of its class, the USS Virginia underway.​

Australia’s quest for nuclear submarines is far from over, their ambition to assemble them in South Australia has significant roadblocks and is heavily reliant on an influx of foreign manufacturers and personnel. Comments by the head of Australia’s nuclear submarine task force indicate that Australia is selecting a ‘mature design’ with production already in existence, which limits it to a few key candidates.

A possible option for Australia is a submarine based on the Virginia Class attack submarine operated by the US, however, this has a number of potential problems. Primarily, that Electric Boat and Newport News, the American shipyards that currently construct the submarines, are only just fulfilling current orders and are focused on preparations to build new Columbia class submarines, leaving them little room to either expand domestic production or export production capability to Australia.

In the UK the Astute class presents a potential option for the Australians, the Astute is smaller and less expensive to produce than other options including the Virginia Class, but UK shipyards are similarly congested with production and would likely not be able to accommodate the increased production required by Australia. Additionally, the UK is phasing out the nuclear reactor that is fitted in the Astute – compounding the problems with selecting this model.

A combination of several of the above could be an option, but this presents its own problems. In an Australian Senate hearing at the end of October, the idea was floated that the rear half of the submarines, containing the nuclear reactor could be built overseas and the remaining 40% built domestically. But this would encounter the problems with foreign production listed above as well as personnel and production issues on the Australian side. Estimates of full domestic production put the cost at 1.5 to two times the price of producing the submarines wholly overseas, in addition to the extra time in setting up a total or even partially Australian production line, creates a significant barrier to the idea of domestic production.

The main barrier is cost, since building the facilities and transporting all the necessary equipment to Australia will significantly increase the costs of an already expensive purchase. Australia has a deadline of 2036 for the acquisition of new submarines, when the first of its diesel-powered Collins-Class submarines will outlive its already extended lifespan. The ramp-up for this programme will have to start sooner rather than later. Australia is at present, a nuclear-free country and only has one university programme dedicated to nuclear engineering – producing five graduates a year, even with a ramp-up they will not be able to produce enough personnel domestically and will have to rely heavily on foreign recruitment.

www.naval-technology.com/comment/australia-nuclear-submarines/

 

[GhostZ06]

No easy options in Australia’s quest for nuclear submarines
Australia has a deadline of 2036 for the acquisition of new submarines.
08 Nov 2021​

Lead ship of its class, the USS Virginia underway.​

Australia’s quest for nuclear submarines is far from over, their ambition to assemble them in South Australia has significant roadblocks and is heavily reliant on an influx of foreign manufacturers and personnel. Comments by the head of Australia’s nuclear submarine task force indicate that Australia is selecting a ‘mature design’ with production already in existence, which limits it to a few key candidates.

A possible option for Australia is a submarine based on the Virginia Class attack submarine operated by the US, however, this has a number of potential problems. Primarily, that Electric Boat and Newport News, the American shipyards that currently construct the submarines, are only just fulfilling current orders and are focused on preparations to build new Columbia class submarines, leaving them little room to either expand domestic production or export production capability to Australia.

In the UK the Astute class presents a potential option for the Australians, the Astute is smaller and less expensive to produce than other options including the Virginia Class, but UK shipyards are similarly congested with production and would likely not be able to accommodate the increased production required by Australia. Additionally, the UK is phasing out the nuclear reactor that is fitted in the Astute – compounding the problems with selecting this model.

A combination of several of the above could be an option, but this presents its own problems. In an Australian Senate hearing at the end of October, the idea was floated that the rear half of the submarines, containing the nuclear reactor could be built overseas and the remaining 40% built domestically. But this would encounter the problems with foreign production listed above as well as personnel and production issues on the Australian side. Estimates of full domestic production put the cost at 1.5 to two times the price of producing the submarines wholly overseas, in addition to the extra time in setting up a total or even partially Australian production line, creates a significant barrier to the idea of domestic production.

The main barrier is cost, since building the facilities and transporting all the necessary equipment to Australia will significantly increase the costs of an already expensive purchase. Australia has a deadline of 2036 for the acquisition of new submarines, when the first of its diesel-powered Collins-Class submarines will outlive its already extended lifespan. The ramp-up for this programme will have to start sooner rather than later. Australia is at present, a nuclear-free country and only has one university programme dedicated to nuclear engineering – producing five graduates a year, even with a ramp-up they will not be able to produce enough personnel domestically and will have to rely heavily on foreign recruitment.

www.naval-technology.com/comment/australia-nuclear-submarines/

Well there are 6 Block IV under construction. They could techhhhically jump on the Block V production line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia-class_submarine

 

[LHWBelt]

I'm game with that, they the homes and aren't in bed with China so they can have our used shit.