Attn: Madmick Gatorade + Creatine

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Chad Hamilton, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    Elementary question I know but the search didn't produce an answer for me.

    Will the citric acid in Gatorade have an effect on creatine?
    From what I already understand, citric acid alters the ph making it creatinine.

    Am I right or should one not worry about it as long as they consume it quickly?

    And so you know, Im not attempting this, just curious.

    I still can't get over how sweet your concoction is.
    No more brownies.
     
  2. farmboy

    farmboy Banned Banned

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    Can I get a link to the recipe?
     
  3. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    I gotta bring this up the page, Mick can't see it.
     
  4. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Chad, I do know that acidic environments increase the conversion of creatine to creatinine, but I didn't know to what degree (especially when considering how strong that acid was). So I did a simple search, "Creatine citric acid" in google. I found this:
    http://www.aapspharmscitech.org/view.asp?art=pt040225&pdf=yes

    You don't have to read this, but I learned some intersting things here. The bottom line is that although an acidic environment will expedite the conversion, it won't do nearly as much as simple temperature (make sense, since at higher temperatures hydrogen bonds are less stable).

    They tested the degradation, dissolution, and solubiliity of creatine, creatine monohydrate, and di-creatine in the study (the dicreatine formulas were supplied by FSI Labs in their product that included citric acid in the flavoring, BTW). If you scroll to results and discussion, you may click on the hyperlink titled "Table 1" to see the degradation scores.

    Bottom line is that I think most guys are unnecessarily freaked out by the conversion process. I think one poster said, "You have to drink it in 10 minutes."

    No. For all three, after 1 whole day, only about 1% had converted to creatinine. About 2% after two days. The solutions were stable to a high degree (<90%) even at room temperature for six days. So don't worry at all about combining gatorade.

    A more important caveat is solubility problems. This was the first time I'd ever seen saturated solubility of creatine monohydrate directly compared to di-creatine. CM has a poor solubility; however, the researchers noted this could be countered by not overloading a liquid solution with the monohydrate.

    Basic Guideline: Combine 5g creatine monohydrate with at least 16oz. water No less water.
     
  5. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    This article was a goldmine, though. The most intriguing thing I read was mentioned in the intro (it wasn't a goal of this study to determine its truth):

    "Studies have shown that creatine uptake in muscle is dependent on sodium and not on insulin spike as was believed earlier. Thus, formulations containing high-calorie sugars are not necessary for creatine transport and absorption. "

    Creatine monohydrate is that salt. The study cited was this one:

    Willot CA, Young ME, Leighton B, et al. Creatine uptake in isolated soleus muscle: kinetics and dependence on sodium, but not on insulin. Acta Physiol Scand. 1999;166:99-104.

    That's an old study, too, but I have to find that study and learn if any additional sodium must be added in order to optimize muscle uptake. If what they say is true, then the whole problem of monohydrate vs. ethyl esters (for calorie purposes) will be solved for a lot of guys. Just take the monohydrate straight up, no sugar added; perhaps better, take it will your PWO shake (as I do). I don't think this should affect the solubilty of the monohydrate, but the researchers in the main study (the one I talk about in the post above) did allude that "certain amino acid profiles" may aid in maximum absorption are missing from isolated monohydrate. This is consistent with my theory I brought up in that thread a couple weeks ago: creatine doesn't occur in isolation in nature, so it's probably not best absorbed by the muscles that way.
     
  6. fittafeis

    fittafeis Blue Belt

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    Hope you will forgive this thread necro, but i searched and found this info to be golden.

    I am currently doing my best to run a type of carb cycling program. Without going to far into that, i was just looking to see if that insulin spike is really needed with creatine monohydrate.

    16oz of water is all that you need, with the powder then? Sounds great!
     
  7. Btwestyo

    Btwestyo Yellow Belt

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    Seems like the level of discussion 4 years ago on this board was a lot more sophisticated :)
     
  8. Vedic

    Vedic Purple Belt

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    Ummmm no not really at all.
     
  9. Btwestyo

    Btwestyo Yellow Belt

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    Were you around on this forum in 2005-2006? I certainly was not but I do remember reading posts by Terumo, BoxingFanNoMore, etc and I don't quite see those kind of posts anymore.
     
  10. fittafeis

    fittafeis Blue Belt

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    Please, gentlemen. Less irrelevant quarrels, more creatine uptake discussion!
     
  11. BangWhosNxt

    BangWhosNxt Purple Belt

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    and a pinch of salt.
     
  12. fittafeis

    fittafeis Blue Belt

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    Excellent. That reminded me to take my creatine today. I also read that ingestion in combination with protein was benificial. But if water and salt does a good bit, thats just awesome.
     

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