At what point do you decide a retro-style game is just covering up poor programming?

[mixmastermo]

I've long held the belief that retro themed and modern pixel art games are either lazy cash grabs or made by lesser skilled developers.

Streets of Rage 4 is an example of a game with gameplay that's a throwback to the 90s, but it still plays well and the graphics are clean. This is how it should be done, IMO.

But then you have games like Turbo Overkill

The graphics don't actually bother me in this game, the gameplay is just janky, imprecise,a nd just plain weak. I understand what they were supposed to be going for but they forgot to make solid gameplay in the process.

Here is a modern pixel art game

Here is a 2D pixel based game from the 90s

 

[The Clark]

I've long held the belief that retro themed and modern pixel art games are either lazy cash grabs or made by lesser skilled developers.

Streets of Rage 4 is an example of a game with gameplay that's a throwback to the 90s, but it still plays well and the graphics are clean. This is how it should be done, IMO.

But then you have games like Turbo Overkill

The graphics don't actually bother me in this game, the gameplay is just janky, imprecise,a nd just plain weak. I understand what they were supposed to be going for but they forgot to make solid gameplay in the process.

Here is a modern pixel art game

Here is a 2D pixel based game from the 90s

From indie to AAA, there are plenty of games that look like shit and still play great, so I don't think there is really much connection there. I am gonna talk about pixel art anyway, though, lol.
A lot of the time with these pixel art indie games, it's a single person handling everything (art, coding, design, sometimes the music, too) either as a labor of love or because they can't afford to hire actual artists. So, it's actually the opposite of laziness. But I think it's fair to say that the artistic design in most indie games is dog shit, even for a lot of the fairly successful ones.
With pixel art, the one thing I do consider laziness is the size of the sprites, which does directly tie into the gameplay. They want to do minimalist designs and skimp on detail under the guise of "retro". Using pixel counts from the NES era in HD resolutions means you end up with characters the size of ants and tons of wasted screen space. Just look at the original Double Dragon compared to the new indie version.

Put it up against Final Fight, and it's even more apparent.

You see these games where the gameplay and overall design is handcuffed to these tiny sprites, and that is what is lazy and insulting to me.

 

[Madmick]

Isn't that Celeste?

Strange choice to pick a game that holds a 92 from OpenCritic (with 99% of critics recommending), a 96% positive rating on Steam, and 4th place for 2018 on the GOTY tracker behind only God of War, RDR2, and Spider-Man.

And perhaps it's a bit unfair to compare that game graphically to Metroid when Metroid was made by the wealthiest studio in the world at the time, Nintendo, while Celeste was an independent project created by two developers, Maddie Makes Games, aka Madeline Stephanie Thorson, with the help of her friend Noel Berry who she met at an indie game development event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeste_(video_game)

Maddy Thorson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mixmastermo]

Just in case you guys really think I'm being unreasonable

 

[Kardashians]

You picked Celeste as the game to shit on? Lolno. That game is fantastic, and while your screen grab makes it look basic, the visuals are often stunning. The game play is fun and challenging, and it has a cute story. You better get outta my face.

Another limited pixel game is Stardew Valley, and man is it one hell of a game!

Another independent project that blew everybody away and now we eagerly await Concerned Ape’s next project.

 

[Plissken]

I think it has less to do with a lack of ability and more to do with a lack of funds.

 

[Fury]

A few pixel art games were great and became very popular. Then people made a shit ton of them, most sucked and some were good

Cel shading did this to but to a smaller scale as overall less games were being released at that time.

It's how video games work, not just graphics. Large open world games did it. You could argue that it's hard to be lazy with when making something big or whatever but making a world that's a mile wild and an inch deep is easier than making the two relatively small, incredibly detailed areas from Yakuza 0 for example.

Again, just how games work. A hit has something, everybody makes games with that something, most of them suck.

 

[WhiteMousse]

I don't view pixel art and programming skill as inherently linked. Some of the best newer games I've played are indies that use pixel art, and they do it very well.

Signalis

Blood West

 

[Zazen]

From indie to AAA, there are plenty of games that look like shit and still play great, so I don't think there is really much connection there. I am gonna talk about pixel art anyway, though, lol.
A lot of the time with these pixel art indie games, it's a single person handling everything (art, coding, design, sometimes the music, too) either as a labor of love or because they can't afford to hire actual artists. So, it's actually the opposite of laziness. But I think it's fair to say that the artistic design in most indie games is dog shit, even for a lot of the fairly successful ones.
With pixel art, the one thing I do consider laziness is the size of the sprites, which does directly tie into the gameplay. They want to do minimalist designs and skimp on detail under the guise of "retro". Using pixel counts from the NES era in HD resolutions means you end up with characters the size of ants and tons of wasted screen space. Just look at the original Double Dragon compared to the new indie version.

Put it up against Final Fight, and it's even more apparent.

You see these games where the gameplay and overall design is handcuffed to these tiny sprites, and that is what is lazy and insulting to me.

That new double dragon game was a huge improvement over the last few. I don’t think it’s always fair to judge art like this until having played the game. A lot of people are calling the next one ugly too but we’ll see what happens when it releases