International 248 people, 66 children Palestinian dead after "Apartheid state" Israel launches airstrikes in Gaza

[MicroBrew]

He is right, they were Levantine Arabs mostly before their struggle with the Jews shaped their identity.

They were the people who lived in that area before Israel was formed, people who are descended from Jews and other Levantine peoples of the region from millenia back.

No one tries to dismiss Native Americans as a manufactured people just because the term "Native American" was created by Whites.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Israel has a fully fledged state of the art world class military.
The Palestinians mostly throw rocks.
So there can be no war, not in the true sense, as only one side has the capability to inflict major long lasting damage on the other.

Now it certainly doesn’t excuse the Palestinians and hamas from their acts of violence, not in the slightest, and some of their decision making is beyond dumb and reckless. But it all has to be put into its correct context for peace to ever stand a chance or it will just continually spiral out of control and both sides inevitably lose and their people suffer.

Why the powers that be on both sides can’t see sense and shake hands for the benefit of their own people is quite puzzling to those of us in the west.

They have rockets. Lmao?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

They were the people who lived in that area before Israel was formed, people who are descended from Jews and other Levantine peoples of the region from millenia back.

No one tries to dismiss Native Americans as a manufactured people just because the term "Native American" was created by Whites.

I'm not saying they weren't there because they obviously were, but they weren't a distinct people/nation till recently.

 

[sheets]

Someone cliff me

A lot of people with strong beliefs/positions are arguing with a lot of people whose positions contradict their own. Some positions seem more reasonable than others to certain people but we are in the war room so no one knows which side has the majority No one seems to listen the other side anymore than they need to to disagree with it.

 

[Misanthropist]

Trouble for israeli media... lynching of Arab by Jewish mob

 

[MicroBrew]

I'm not saying they weren't there because they obviously were, but they weren't a distinct people/nation till recently.

But you could apply the same logic to Lebanese, Kuwaitis and Emiratis. Kuwait was carved out of Iraq. Lebanon was part of Syria and came about as a sovereign nation under French rule. Emirates was a confederation created by the Brits and called the Trucial States then later called UAE.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

But you could apply the same logic to Lebanese, Kuwaitis and Emiratis. Kuwait was carved out of Iraq. Lebanon came about as a nation French rule. Emirates was a confederation created by the Brits and called the Trucial States then later called UAE.

Yes you could and I do apply that logic to them as well as the Jordanians and Syrians. There was no distinct Palestinian nation/people until recently, they were Levantine Arabs.

 

[danny23]

Typical.

 

[MicroBrew]

Yes you could and I do apply that logic to them as well as the Jordanians and Syrians. There was no distinct Palestinian nation/people until recently, they were Levantine Arabs.

But that doesn't make them any less the native inhabitants of the area. Just as Native Americans are no less indegenous to the Americans before the term "Native American" was invented.

 

[Gregolian]

Two state solution is dead in the water and the world doesn't need another Arab state, if anything it needs fewer but that's a conversation for another thread.

I don't understand how politicians in the West always harp on "GO BACK TO 1967 BORDERS!" like it's a magical cure all. It'd put both Israel and the state that would become Palestine to be the size of like.. Rhode Island.....

 

[DespicablePeep]

According to UN there are a total of about 5500-6000 fatalities in the whole history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
In Syriah there were 400,000 casualties, some weeks by the thousands. This is all a google away, its not that hardto find ffs.
And no, my point was that equating between the two is ridiculous, especially considering the total inability of any western forces to bring to any kind of solution. They are better at failing and yawning while local terror org prosper, like what happened in Lebanon.

Comparing a civil conflict to a war does not make much sense does it? Palestine does not have an army or a country.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

But that doesn't make them any less the native inhabitants of the area. Just as Native Americans are no less indegenous to the Americans before the term "Native American" was invented.

Agreed, but there was no nation of Palestine there. Just native Levantine Arabs.

 

[Misanthropist]

...

 

[Gregolian]

Agreed, but there was no nation of Palestine there. Just native Levantine Arabs.

This semantic argument isn't as good as you think it is.

Pre-Ottoman break up... the whole area was under Ottoman rule so using your logic we should call the people of the area Turks.

Basically, stfu.

 

[MicroBrew]

Agreed, but there was no nation of Palestine there. Just native Levantine Arabs.

I am not seeing the point of the argument here.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

This semantic argument isn't as good as you think it is.

Pre-Ottoman break up... the whole area was under Ottoman rule so using your logic we should call the people of the area Turks.

Basically, stfu.

What language/dialect/vernacular did they speak natively, what were their cultural customs. Ya they certainly weren't Turks, they were Levantine Arabs so STFU.

 

[Gregolian]

What language/dialect/vernacular did they speak natively, what were their cultural customs. Ya they certainly weren't Turks, they were Levantine Arabs so STFU.

Your argument has boiled down to "there was never a nation called Palestine so they can't be called Palestinians."

They were Ottomans. As there was never a nation called "Levant". Go open a fucking book that doesn't involve people turning water to wine.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Your argument has boiled down to "there was never a nation called Palestine so they can't be called Palestinians."

They were Ottomans. As there was never a nation called "Levant". Go open a fucking book that doesn't involve people turning water to wine.

No my argument is that there wasn't a nation called Palestine or a distinct Palestinian people till recently. The region has gone through many distinct periods from Canaanite -> Israelites -> Babylonian -> Persian -> Hellenism -> Roman -> Byzantine -> Early Muslim Caliphates -> Crusader -> Mamluk -> Ottoman -> British -> Israeli/Palestinian.

 

[Gregolian]

No my argument is that there wasn't a nation called Palestine or a distinct Palestinian people till recently. The region has gone through many distinct periods from Canaanite -> Israelites -> Babylonian -> Persian -> Hellenism -> Roman -> Byzantine -> Early Muslim Caliphates -> Crusader -> Mamluk -> Ottoman -> British -> Israeli/Palestinian.

So the Native Americans weren't a distinct group so we all should have done what Australia did and march them into the ocean is what I'm reading. See how stupid your argument is?

@Limbo Pete you wanna take over before I go into rant territory and get cards?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I am not seeing the point of the argument here.

There is none, he loves to split hairs on that point to distract from the larger issue.

He does have a point of course, initially the Arabs of the region wanted to live under a united Arab state that was promised to them by the British before the Arab Revolt. Then afterwards they wanted to live under King Faisal in the Kingdom of Syria. That's because while Palestine was seen as a distinct subregion it was also seen as part of greater Syria which encompasses all of modern day Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, and parts of Jordan.

EDIT: Actually many of the Arabs before WWI wanted to continue living under the Ottoman Sultan so its even more complicated than I implied.