Ask the guy who just took the ABC refereeing/judging training

[aerius]

Can you explain the difference in setups between a D'Arce Choke and an Anaconda Choke?

What if it's Jacare who's doing the choke? Does that make it into a gator roll?

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

What if it's Jacare who's doing the choke? Does that make it into a gator roll?

It absolutely does, and I applaud you.

 

[HaulParris]

Thank You @BenjaminDuffy ! Lots of really good info, and I truly appreciate your candor in answering the questions.

 

[ifindgifsforjackslack]

My question is, do they get two homeless people to fight and you ref it? is this the practical exam? Fingers crossed this is how they do it.

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

My question is, do they get two homeless people to fight and you ref it? is this the practical exam? Fingers crossed this is how they do it.

I think you've just described BKFC.

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

under what circumstances do you stop a match and disqualify someone? intentional crotch shot or eye poke, Knee on downed opponent??? what about groin shots on women?? same as men? Can a competitor be disqualified for something a corner-man/woman did? IE spills bag of ice while exiting the cage causing extra time needed for clean up when their fighter is clearly the more gassed combatant?

Hey, sorry I somehow missed these questions!

Disqualification is at the referee's discretion in some cases. A foul that's flagrant (i.e. it was illegal and couldn't have been accidental) can merit a disqualification without warning, and regardless of whether it did damage. Think of really outlandish stuff like biting, spitting, etc., that's fortunately rare in modern MMA.

Stuff that isn't flagrantly intentional, your usual fouls like eye pokes, groin shots, fence grabs, we were given some guidelines and examples for escalating from warnings, to point deductions, and eventually to disqualification if necessary.

As far as stopping the match, any foul that does damage pretty much requires a time-out. Again, think of eye pokes, cup shots, illegal strikes to grounded opponents, etc. Some fouls can be called, and point deductions even assessed, without stopping the action. Examples would include fence grabs and passivity/stalling. There were some common-sense guidelines given: a time-out or lack thereof should never benefit the fighter who fouled. For example, if I'm trying to take you down and you keep grabbing the fence, and after a couple of warnings you grab it again just as I manage to slam you and land in side control anyway, the referee would ideally signal to the judges that he was taking a point, but without halting the action. Or for an opposite example, if I'm trying to take you down and I'm the one who keeps grabbing the fence, if I manage to get you down with the help of my third fence grab in 60 seconds, I might get a point taken away and we restart on the feet in the middle of the cage, so that I lose the position and any advantage I got by breaking the rules.

Groin shots are a foul regardless of the gender of the fighters involved or what anatomical equipment may or may not be lurking in their fight shorts.

Stuff like intentionally spilled bags of ice or "forgetting" to remove the stool between rounds can be interpreted as the fighter failing to answer the bell, which is a loss by TKO (Retirement), and yes, fighters can absolutely lose that way based on their corner's actions. That's rare, of course, but technically the threat is out there.

 

[NoSmilez]

What is your catch phrase?

 

[Stranger Come Knocking]

Was it easy as 1, 2, 3?

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

What about judging adequate?

Is it appropriate to get excited during a fight like a fan? Should you always look like you're writing something on a piece of paper? Is it advised to keep notes? Are you totally unsupervised etc.

There was a surprising amount of instruction on this! As I said earlier, the main focus was on doing a good job and being above reproach in terms of your professionalism and integrity, but right behind that was the importance of avoiding even the appearance of negligence or wrongdoing. It's absolutely inappropriate to act excited while scoring a fight, lest you look like you were rooting for or against a certain fighter or outcome. (This was nothing new to me, as the MMAJA rules of conduct prohibit me from cheering or rooting for fighters on press row.)

As judges, we were definitely counseled to take notes, but to use a pad or notebook, because if you end up being part of a controversial decision, the last thing you want is someone posting an image of you looking at your phone during the fight. On a local level, it's almost guaranteed that the judges will know the fighters and/or their coaches personally. You're expected to keep greetings and interactions on a professional/formal level, and if you have an actual close relationship with any of the fighters or teams, you're expected to disclose that to the commission, so that they can decide whether it's appropriate to have you judge that fight or not.

 

[ultra321]

Hey, sorry I somehow missed these questions!

Disqualification is at the referee's discretion in some cases. A foul that's flagrant (i.e. it was illegal and couldn't have been accidental) can merit a disqualification without warning, and regardless of whether it did damage. Think of really outlandish stuff like biting, spitting, etc., that's fortunately rare in modern MMA.

Stuff that isn't flagrantly intentional, your usual fouls like eye pokes, groin shots, fence grabs, we were given some guidelines and examples for escalating from warnings, to point deductions, and eventually to disqualification if necessary.

As far as stopping the match, any foul that does damage pretty much requires a time-out. Again, think of eye pokes, cup shots, illegal strikes to grounded opponents, etc. Some fouls can be called, and point deductions even assessed, without stopping the action. Examples would include fence grabs and passivity/stalling. There were some common-sense guidelines given: a time-out or lack thereof should never benefit the fighter who fouled. For example, if I'm trying to take you down and you keep grabbing the fence, and after a couple of warnings you grab it again just as I manage to slam you and land in side control anyway, the referee would ideally signal to the judges that he was taking a point, but without halting the action. Or for an opposite example, if I'm trying to take you down and I'm the one who keeps grabbing the fence, if I manage to get you down with the help of my third fence grab in 60 seconds, I might get a point taken away and we restart on the feet in the middle of the cage, so that I lose the position and any advantage I got by breaking the rules.

Groin shots are a foul regardless of the gender of the fighters involved or what anatomical equipment may or may not be lurking in their fight shorts.

Stuff like intentionally spilled bags of ice or "forgetting" to remove the stool between rounds can be interpreted as the fighter failing to answer the bell, which is a loss by TKO (Retirement), and yes, fighters can absolutely lose that way based on their corner's actions. That's rare, of course, but technically the threat is out there.

Good stuff thanks!!!

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Mike Mazzulli, i.e. the guy most likely to make such a decision in most cases, was actually there. Decertifying a judge isn't really done; what happens is that judge simply doesn't get any more work. He said the quickest way to guarantee you never get any more jobs from him is to argue or otherwise discuss your work over social media. (Again, as mentioned upthread, everyone makes mistakes; it's how you handle them in the aftermath that determines how you are perceived as a professional.)



It didn't come up, and wouldn't have in our situation. There would have been no reason to; everyone in the room was pretty firmly and obviously an MMA person, even if some were primarily grapplers or strikers by training. (The ABC boxing referee training was going on next door at the same location.)

Thanks so much for the insight. I am not one to cry conspiracy when judging is suspect. Fight fixing isn't something that I believe happens at the highest levels. If it were I would at least understand it. What rustles my "Jimmies" is incompetence. Glad to see that there is some amount of accountability behind the scenes.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I used to reffed and judge mma and muaythai events and I find judging much more nerve-wracking as opposed to running around, trying to break up guys and stopping people from breaking their opponent's arms.

I am sure it is a very hard job in real time. Stopped too soon, too late, influenced the action, out of position. Would be beyond my capabilities for sure.

 

[Jitter]

Are you persuaded to not give fighters the full 5 minute recovery time after a foul. Seems like a lot of refs push the fighter to quit or continue very quickly

 

[HockeyBjj]

Did they do anything like how to finalize a score when an equal number of significant things happened? How does a judge determine who won a round when there was a knockdown vs the other guy a takedown to mount ground and pound? Assuming the rest of the round was fairly equal between them.

Do judges keep a running thought going in their head of who is currently winning the round, unless/until something happens to change that? And then potentially change it back? Do they just take 30 seconds at the end of the round to try and add up all the notable events that happened?

Does it every purely end up with who landed more significant strikes, if there were no notable events?

 

[wwkirk]

So do you intend on actually refereeing (assuming you pass), or are you undecided?

 

[mahavishnunj]

Would you have called Randy for tapping when he spanked Tito?

 

[richardjohnson]

His breakdown of his stoppage in the first Ankalaev-Cutelaba fight was frank, open and humorous.

I still feel like that was mainly Cutelaba's fault although I seem to be in the minority. I think a lot of people forget that referee's don't have the benefit of replay to make sure they are making the right call, they have to make split second decisions based on what they are seeing in real time. Cutelaba decided to try to trick his opponent into thinking he was hurt and ended up tricking the referee as well, I tend to think that's just the risk you take when you do something like that. Only my opinion though.

 

[TorontoTO]

On the refereeing front: Breaking up stalemate positions like wall-and-stall and lay-and-pray is subject to wide discretion by the referee.

For judges: Damage is paramount. Takedowns that do not lead to damage, either through ground strikes or legitimate submission attempts, count for nothing. Being on top in guard is not inherently an advantageous position; i.e. you're not winning just by being there.

Same for leg kicks: some of them are very damaging while others aren't. The judges' job is to decide whether, for example, Fighter A's leg kick had a greater impact than Fighter B's jab or right cross.

The issue with the judging that when a guy takes someone down and just holds them there for a round, what else are you supposed to do if the other guy can't get any sub attempts going. It's on the refs to break it up at that point. Imho if someone is holding you there for 1 minute, that's when you stand them up or seperate

 

[Rawplier]

There was a surprising amount of instruction on this! As I said earlier, the main focus was on doing a good job and being above reproach in terms of your professionalism and integrity, but right behind that was the importance of avoiding even the appearance of negligence or wrongdoing. It's absolutely inappropriate to act excited while scoring a fight, lest you look like you were rooting for or against a certain fighter or outcome. (This was nothing new to me, as the MMAJA rules of conduct prohibit me from cheering or rooting for fighters on press row.)

As judges, we were definitely counseled to take notes, but to use a pad or notebook, because if you end up being part of a controversial decision, the last thing you want is someone posting an image of you looking at your phone during the fight. On a local level, it's almost guaranteed that the judges will know the fighters and/or their coaches personally. You're expected to keep greetings and interactions on a professional/formal level, and if you have an actual close relationship with any of the fighters or teams, you're expected to disclose that to the commission, so that they can decide whether it's appropriate to have you judge that fight or not.

I was going to ask about a referee/judge who has fought someone or trained at a certain gym if they would be "disqualified" to officiate said fighter/gym.

I still feel like that was mainly Cutelaba's fault although I seem to be in the minority. I think a lot of people forget that referee's don't have the benefit of replay to make sure they are making the right call, they have to make split second decisions based on what they are seeing in real time. Cutelaba decided to try to trick his opponent into thinking he was hurt and ended up tricking the referee as well, I tend to think that's just the risk you take when you do something like that. Only my opinion though.

It was a good trick, too good. I also think the ref was looking at the fighter (the head and reaction) instead of the strikes: where/how they are landing.

 

[Sticko]

Are you persuaded to not give fighters the full 5 minute recovery time after a foul. Seems like a lot of refs push the fighter to quit or continue very quickly

Until recently it was just 5 minutes for groin strikes, you weren't guaranteed the full 5 for any other type of foul. Max of 5 minutes for any foul but the ref would stop the contest straightaway if he sensed the fighter was not going to be able to continue.

They changed that very recently but it definitely seems as though refs don't want fighters taking the full 5 unless they actually need it.