"Armbar"/"Armlock" meaning

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by anony, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. anony

    anony Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    What does "armbar" mean to everyone -- does it mean juji-gatame only, or
    can it also mean other things like ude-garami/kimura and
    hiza-gatame/omoplata? I feel that the term "armlock" might be used as a
    general term but is usually used to refer to the latter two, while
    "armbar" implies that the arm has been extended like a bar/pole and thus
    means juji-gatame. (This is for the Wikipedia article on armbar:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armbar )
     
  2. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    6,544
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    outskirts of life
    an armbar is against the elbow. kimura and omoplata are shoulder locks.
     
  3. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    4,133
    Likes Received:
    6
    I always taught

    Armbar = Juji

    Armlock =Joint lock attacking the arm
     
  4. Tegelsten

    Tegelsten Team Misstag

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    an armbar is an armlock, but so are locks that attack the elbow from other positions (ex. with the legs from scarfhold) but they wont be armbars.

    That wikipedia article is so off its not even funny.
     
  5. anony

    anony Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what I thought, the armlock is the superset of armbar but not vice versa.

    The question is, are shoulder locks part of arm locks? Google suggests the ude-garami and kimura are commonly considered to be arm locks:
    "... Kimura (top) applying the ude garami (bent arm lock) to Helio Gracie ..."
    "...the arm lock that defeated Helio Gracie was named the "Kimura Lock"..."
    "...but instead Thomas managed to get a kimura arm lock..."
    "...I locked a Kimura arm lock on him..."

    However the omoplata is usually called a shoulder lock, probably because it is applied by the legs:
    "omoplata shoulderlock submission..."
    "Shoulder Lock "Omoplata"..."
    "Omoplata shoulder lock,"
    "I assume you know the Omoplata shoulder lock..."
     
  6. QingTian

    QingTian Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    274
    ude and omo attack the elbow when done correctly.
     
  7. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Slovenia
    Really? I have always learned that they attack the shoulder.

    Armbar=juji
    Armlock=everything on the arm, including juji
     
  8. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    doesnt the armbar attack the elbow though? We just had a guy have his elbow broken from a quick armbar fromt he guard was slapped on.
     
  9. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    1
    arm lock describes many techniques that all affect the arm shoulder region. inside the category of arm locks include; arm bar (between ones legs) key lock (or Americana) Kimura (reverse key lock) razor lock (straight arm bar using that arms) arm bar (using the abdomen) omaplata ( a kimura using the legs) and dont for get all the holds from plice tactics and traditional JJ styles.

    What I have noticed from traveling from JJJ to JUdo to BJJ to police tactics to army combatives to wrestling and back to JJ again .... every school and every style have a slightly different name for everything. Even if you train it using the japanese language.

    Simply put ... the elbow and sholder tend to go one direction .. anything countering that direction could possibly constitue a armlock ... or bar.
     
  10. RizRan

    RizRan Guest

    I think armbar is against elbow and armlock is like keylock or kimura
     
  11. bar just means you're scissoring your legs around it. armbar, kneebar, etc.

    lock is just a hold applied to pressure wherever specified.
     
  12. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    1
    "bar"s involve straigtening/opening a joint to it's maximum (the way it is intended to open) and then beyond. It has nothing to do with how the force is applied or the positioning of either person. It doesn't involve a twisting motion. There are knee-bars and arm-bars, and many versions of the Achilles lock could be considered ankle-bars, but I've not seen that term used.

    "Lock"s are when a joint is immobilized. "bar"s are a subset of this. All "bar"S are "lock"s but not the reverse.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.