"Armbar"/"Armlock" meaning

[anony]

What does "armbar" mean to everyone -- does it mean juji-gatame only, or
can it also mean other things like ude-garami/kimura and
hiza-gatame/omoplata? I feel that the term "armlock" might be used as a
general term but is usually used to refer to the latter two, while
"armbar" implies that the arm has been extended like a bar/pole and thus
means juji-gatame. (This is for the Wikipedia article on armbar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armbar )

 

[DirectDrive]

an armbar is against the elbow. kimura and omoplata are shoulder locks.

 

[Deleted member 3729]

I always taught

Armbar = Juji

Armlock =Joint lock attacking the arm

 

[Tegelsten]

an armbar is an armlock, but so are locks that attack the elbow from other positions (ex. with the legs from scarfhold) but they wont be armbars.

That wikipedia article is so off its not even funny.

 

[anony]

That's what I thought, the armlock is the superset of armbar but not vice versa.

an armbar is against the elbow. kimura and omoplata are shoulder locks.

The question is, are shoulder locks part of arm locks? Google suggests the ude-garami and kimura are commonly considered to be arm locks:
"... Kimura (top) applying the ude garami (bent arm lock) to Helio Gracie ..."
"...the arm lock that defeated Helio Gracie was named the "Kimura Lock"..."
"...but instead Thomas managed to get a kimura arm lock..."
"...I locked a Kimura arm lock on him..."

However the omoplata is usually called a shoulder lock, probably because it is applied by the legs:
"omoplata shoulderlock submission..."
"Shoulder Lock "Omoplata"..."
"Omoplata shoulder lock,"
"I assume you know the Omoplata shoulder lock..."

 

[QingTian]

ude and omo attack the elbow when done correctly.

 

[scorcho]

Really? I have always learned that they attack the shoulder.

Armbar=juji
Armlock=everything on the arm, including juji

 

[Gsoares2***]

doesnt the armbar attack the elbow though? We just had a guy have his elbow broken from a quick armbar fromt he guard was slapped on.

 

[ichimonji]

arm lock describes many techniques that all affect the arm shoulder region. inside the category of arm locks include; arm bar (between ones legs) key lock (or Americana) Kimura (reverse key lock) razor lock (straight arm bar using that arms) arm bar (using the abdomen) omaplata ( a kimura using the legs) and dont for get all the holds from plice tactics and traditional JJ styles.

What I have noticed from traveling from JJJ to JUdo to BJJ to police tactics to army combatives to wrestling and back to JJ again .... every school and every style have a slightly different name for everything. Even if you train it using the japanese language.

Simply put ... the elbow and sholder tend to go one direction .. anything countering that direction could possibly constitue a armlock ... or bar.

 

[RizRan]

I think armbar is against elbow and armlock is like keylock or kimura

 

[Gavin LeFever]

bar just means you're scissoring your legs around it. armbar, kneebar, etc.

lock is just a hold applied to pressure wherever specified.

 

[TheHighlander]

"bar"s involve straigtening/opening a joint to it's maximum (the way it is intended to open) and then beyond. It has nothing to do with how the force is applied or the positioning of either person. It doesn't involve a twisting motion. There are knee-bars and arm-bars, and many versions of the Achilles lock could be considered ankle-bars, but I've not seen that term used.

"Lock"s are when a joint is immobilized. "bar"s are a subset of this. All "bar"S are "lock"s but not the reverse.