Armatix Smart Gun

[spamking]

I fear you have just made him paranoid. I fear ppl with guns and cannot tell who is armed and who isn't - might not be an ideal situation to say the least.

Depends on the person. A criminal won't care how you feel . . . someone with a permit won't (shouldn't) expose it unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Groundmaster]

Depends on the person. A criminal won't care how you feel . . . someone with a permit won't (shouldn't) expose it unless absolutely necessary.

I think you did not get what I meant. From his posts it is pretty clear he is not afraid of guns as much as the owners.

Instead of thinking this guy is not dangerous because he is not visibly armed he might now think well maybe he is a concealed carrier and henceforth be afraid anytime he sees anyone who is wearing enough to conceal a gun under.

During the composition of my last sentence I found a solution - he has to go and live in a nudist colony. They would be hard pressed to conceal a gun - and even if successful I'd bet they will not be able to do a quick draw.

 

[spamking]

I think you did not get what I meant. From his posts it is pretty clear he is not afraid of guns as much as the owners.

As he should be . . . people are idiots.

Instead of thinking this guy is not dangerous because he is not visibly armed he might now think well maybe he is a concealed carrier and henceforth be afraid anytime he sees anyone who is wearing enough to conceal a gun under.

Nobody should live like that . . . they'll go nuts.

During the composition of my last sentence I found a solution - he has to go and live in a nudist colony. They would be hard pressed to conceal a gun - and even if successful I'd bet they will not be able to do a quick draw.

Might be a little awkward . . . :icon_chee

 

[Groundmaster]

Might be a little awkward . . . :icon_chee

And remember if you use lube its hard to get a good grip on ya boomstick ...

 

[UpaLoompa]

Acting like everyone with a gun is planning to shoot you is equally as asinine.

Well a person with a gun is more likely to shoot you than one without a gun. :icon_chee

 

[UpaLoompa]

no you wouldn't. ESPECIALLY in high crime areas. head over to the gun rights thread to continue this so throttlehead doesn't get his panties in a wad.

You're apparently ignorant of the actual numbers on these things.
The numbers don't really support a self-defense argument. Importantly one doesn't need those numbers to make an argument for allowing/expanding gun ownership. However, you probably do need such support as I find your ability to make coherent arguments... lacking.

 

[45ACP]

I really hate guns. I view gun rights as being primarily about killing people, which I abhor. I see liking guns as being equivalent to liking killing, which is a position I also abhor. I realize people have guns for lots of reasons, but typically those reasons all boil down to killing someone if you feel it is necessary. I don't like people walking around with that much power. It's unearned and there's no expectation of responsiblity that comes with it. I hate the idea that you can walk around with the power to hurt me or my family at a whim, and the only real defense I have to that is to be willing to hurt or kill you if I feel it is necessary in my fallible human judgement.

Your position is so incredibly inconsistent and hypocritical I don't even know where to start

 

[spamking]

well a person with a gun is more likely to shoot you than one without a gun. :icon_chee

doh!

 

[Scrody]

Probably bc you are a xenophobic asshat

Or it could be that I know far more about guns than he does, but yeah. Throw in with him, we'll all have full autos before the years out if we had it himbobs way. We just have to have that neat little safety watch on it. That's definitely all you need. The current system doesn't work, that's why you hear about people shooting up schools with full autos all the time. Stoic is a serious concern of mine, it's not like he's had extensive training and background checks to own the firearms he does. But sure, lets put full autos AKs in Wal-Mart, just make sure it has that neat little unproven safety watch on it.

I'm curious of what you said before the edit, you didn't let your unstable temper loose did you? Did you want to punch me for my opinion? :icon_lol:

 

[afrdzak]

In the academy, I was taught a story that will stick with me for the rest of my life.

The story is about sheep, wolves, and sheep-dogs.

You strike me as a sheep. Not in a bad way, not in a "brainwashed" way, but you are a normal, healthy, productive American who abhors violence. I get that. My wife is a sheep. My child is a sheep. Most of my family are sheep.

They like to pretend the wolves don't exist.

The wolves are predators. They rob people, kill people, they rape and torture small children. They exist, they are real. They have claws and they want to take from the sheep.

Then there are the sheep-dogs. The sheep-dogs have claws, and teeth, and know how to fight/kill. They hunt, they bark.. they scare the sheep. The sheep-dog looks an awful lot like the scary wolf. The sheep-dog doesn't back down from the righteous fight, he's not afraid to kill or die for the sheep.. even though the sheep fear and possibly hate him.

Don't think that all of us police, corrections, or military are sheep-dogs. We're not. Some are. Some are sheep. And.. more importantly, some are wolves. Or would obey the orders of wolves.


I am a sheep-dog. If another Aurora movie theater shooting, or terrorist incident occurs, I hope I'm there to protect you and your family.

You can't possibly know how much this explains....

 

[Uchi Mata]

Seriously, grow a pair.

These aren't gangbangers holding their pistols sideways. Or Taliban that shoot up schools. These guys think something is wrong with their government and are doing what they feel is right.

Your view of society is much different compared to theirs. Are you worried that they might try to start a revolution?

What's funny is that the Taliban who shoot up schools and guys who kidnap children in Nigeria also think something is wrong with their government and are also doing what they feel is right. Does that absolve them of guilt?

I'm not really worried they'll start a revolution, but I am worried that their embrace of violence and self righteousness will lead them to start shooting at the drop of a hat. Look, if you go out of your way to show how dangerous you are, how suspicious you are of authority, and be publically confrontational while carrying deadly weapons what are people supposed to think? People with this world view are very consciously and very assiduously showing that they think violence and not the political process is the answer to what they perceive as problems in America. What about that strikes you as safe?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Your position is so incredibly inconsistent and hypocritical I don't even know where to start

 

[Stoic1]

I'm not really worried they'll start a revolution, but I am worried that their embrace of violence and self righteousness will lead them to start shooting at the drop of a hat. Look, if you go out of your way to show how dangerous you are, how suspicious you are of authority, and be publically confrontational while carrying deadly weapons what are people supposed to think? People with this world view are very consciously and very assiduously showing that they think violence and not the political process is the answer to what they perceive as problems in America. What about that strikes you as safe?

I saw you editted this mid-reply. So I retyped.

Statistics show that Concealed Carry types are MUCH LESS LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIMES THAN non-licensed individuals. Food for thought.

I don't care for open-carry types. I don't agree with much of what you said about them - but I understand your perspective. I think they are very misguided myself.

 

[Protectandserve]

Not every poisonous snake is going to bite me, but I still avoid them all. Why? Because they're dangerous. A person with a gun is inherently more dangerous than a person without one simply because they've upped their power to cause harm considerably. You can of course argue that they're only dangerous if they decide they want to hurt someone, but I don't want to count on someone else's forebearance for my safety.

Could this same argument not be used against someone who has extensive martial arts training? The old "register your hands as a lethal weapon" nonsense. Or arguing someone with a large SUV that drives is inherently more dangerous than someone rolling around in a Smart Car.

It again falls on the intent of that individual to cause harm. Someone with years of training in martial arts (as I believe you have) has upped their power to cause harm considerably compared to the average joe on the street.

Lumping all gun owners in the same category as dangerous makes about as much sense as lumping all martial artists in together as lethally trained killers.

Edit:Just noticed someone else already asked this and got a reply.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Could this same argument not be used against someone who has extensive martial arts training? The old "register your hands as a lethal weapon" nonsense. Or arguing someone with a large SUV that drives is inherently more dangerous than someone rolling around in a Smart Car.

It again falls on the intent of that individual to cause harm. Someone with years of training in martial arts (as I believe you have) has upped their power to cause harm considerably compared to the average joe on the street.

Lumping all gun owners in the same category as dangerous makes about as much sense as lumping all martial artists in together as lethally trained killers.

Edit:Just noticed someone else already asked this and got a reply.

Let's be clear: I am more dangerous than I would be if I were untrained. Even responsible gun owners are more dangerous than they would be without guns. Their ability to inflict harm is upped by the gun whether they use it or not. SUV drivers likewise are more dangerous than Smart Car drivers, your chances of being killed in a collision with an SUV are much greater than if you hit a Smart Car.

That's a little beside the point though. Many things are dangerous. We cook on stoves, but they can burn the hell out of you. We drive cars, many people die in car wrecks. But the point of stoves and cars is not to intimidate and harm. If you're openly carrying a gun in public, what's the point other than to intimidate and show how dangerous you are? Gun people love to point out that guns are just tools. Fair enough. But that doesn't absolve the pro-gun lobby of taking responsibility for the very high level of danger that 'tool' entails, or make any allowances for the culture of violence as a first option that seems to me to be deeply embedded among American gun lovers. When I see threads like Byron Carter likes to make about people coming home from the store to their house getting robbed and they rush in with a gun and save the day, that scares me. Why? Because in that situation you should call the cops, not endanger yourself and potentially your family by starting a shootout. What I draw from stories like that and the responses to them are that many gun owners fantasize about being the white knight who kicks ass and saves the day, when the world really doesn't work like that. When in reality you're more likely to shoot a family member than an intruder. The level of delusion and fantasy about guns among certain gun owners is what alarms me, as is the glorification of deadly violence. So are guns just tools? Yes. But the culture that surrounds them makes their owners on the whole much more dangerous than, say, car drivers or people cooking dinner even though they both are using dangerous tools.

 

[Scrody]

When you use misuse dangerous things, they can have serious consequences. Guns, cars, stoves, knives, baseball bats, power tools. The key is to not be a complete retard and practice safety with anything that has the potential to kill or injure. Knowledge is power.

 

[Uchi Mata]

When you use misuse dangerous things, they can have serious consequences. Guns, cars, stoves, knives, baseball bats, power tools. The key is to not be a complete retard and practice safety with anything that has the potential to kill or injure. Knowledge is power.

True enough, but do you not think there is a large and politically powerful subsegment of gun owners who glorify violence? I don't see anyone in the baseball community threatening to to beat people up with bats over taxes. If I see you walking around with a bat I can pretty safely assume you're going to play baseball. When I see people walking around carrying pistols they're usually not headed to the range. They want people to be afraid of them.

 

[CarbonFistprint]

Step 1: Introduce "smart guns" that only fire when the owner is holding them while wearing specially chipped item (like bracelet).

Step 2: Declare "smart guns" the only legal weapons, outlaw the possession of all other guns.

Step 3: Introduce legislature that allows a government/military/police "override" of the chip, which makes any gun other than theirs a paperweight at the push of a button.

 

[Scrody]

True enough, but do you not think there is a large and politically powerful subsegment of gun owners who glorify violence? I don't see anyone in the baseball community threatening to to beat people up with bats over taxes. If I see you walking around with a bat I can pretty safely assume you're going to play baseball. When I see people walking around carrying pistols they're usually not headed to the range. They want people to be afraid of them.

You see a guy walking down the street with a bat and assume he's on his way to play baseball? I wouldn't lol unless he had some friends that had mitts and gloves. Thats the idea of concealed carry, you don't know who is carrying. Open carry is a whole other discussion. The only time I open carry is in the woods. Otherwise I agree for the most part. I will admit there is a certain amount of gun owners that are a tad worrying, but we all aren't like that. If we met one another, you wouldn't think I was armed or even liked guns.

 

[45ACP]

I don't go walking around with t-shirts saying that I'm going to kick your ass, or carrying weapons openly with the aim of intimidating others.

Most gun owners do not do this. In fact I'd bet there are a higher percentage of martial artists who try to project that image (covered in tats and affliction/tap out gear) than gun owners who do the same.

You've pointed out some of the differences but if you can't see the parallels between armed self-defense and unarmed self-defense I don't really know what else to say.

You simply refuse to acknowledge any point that doesn't fit your beliefs, even when it contradicts your own logic. You even freely admit in this very thread to holding opinions that are "illogical" and "silly" on the topic of gun ownership. How do you justify holding beliefs that you know to be illogical?

Please explain how your assertion that liking guns = liking killing is any different than saying liking martial arts = liking hurting people.