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Arm drag counters/defense?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Calibur, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    From the guard. Every BJJ school has that one student who is a big fan of the arm drag from the bottom, and is constantly making a move dangerously close to your back while you are trying to pass his guard.

    The person Im having problems with is about my height and build, but has really long legs.

    Now, Ive been doing this long enough to know whenever you make a move in BJJ, you are usually open to being passed or swept, but I dont see it in this move since the legs seem to stay locked. All I can do is try to realign myself with the armdragger and start from scratch (where he will do it again).

    Any counters or detriments to keep a guy from going for it to often?
     
  2. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    I am a master arm dragger if i may say so myself. People who are very strong and powerful (and who are ex-wrestlers excel at this move). Anyway, the best arm drag pulls your opponent not toward your side, but almost directly across to their opposite side. If it's done that way then it's hard to counter when done well. But if it's not done fast or if they don't pull you to the side then you can try to open your palm and catch it up in their waist or torso area as they try to pull it by them. Kind of a straight arm, or forearm shiver. Works for me, because i can see them coming.
     
  3. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    But it seems you cant really punish them for attempting it.

    A botched triangle equals a guard pass. Botched armbar equals pass. Botched kimura is a pass. Botched spider guard is a pass. Screwed up scissor sweep is a pass.

    is the armdrag completely safe? o_O
     
  4. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

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    Like sd Force said, go the opposite way realy fast (the same side as his arm which is arm dragging you), so as to pas his guard.
    If you are standing, you can also do a reverse arm drag, where when he starts to grab your arm , you immediatly react by armdragging his other arm. Hope this helps
     
  5. Kuroi Kaze

    Kuroi Kaze Blue Belt

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    yeah there's a 6'6 300 lb blue belt that just constantly does this to everyone.

    i have not yet figured out much of a way to stop him other than just trying to realign myself.
     
  6. Chandler sama

    Chandler sama Green Belt

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    I'm not an expert on BJJ by any means, but what I've had sucess with is just stoping their movement and then treating it like half guard. If they arm drag my right arm I quickly go under their head and then under their left armpit. From there I grab as much gi as possible. This will keep them from being able to move to you back easily. If they are still kind of over powering you I'd lay my weight on them to flaten them to the ground. At that point I imagine one of their legs will be climbing up your back or he might have given up and gone to half guard. Either way at this point I move my left foot out to the side to get a good base and grab his left foot with my right hand and try to move out of half guard to side mount. Please tell me if there is a flaw in my technique someplace or if someone has a better counter.
    .
     
  7. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    Sorry i didn't clarify....But my suggestions above were primarily the standing or kneeling versions. Those are the only times i really try it.
     
  8. Ybot

    Ybot Purple Belt

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    If they are not quick enough and don't get in close you can arm drag them back using the arm they tried to arm drag you with.
     
  9. Christian Medina

    Christian Medina Amateur Fighter

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    I just received my Marelinho DVD on Arm Drags!! Good stuff.

    Now I'm far from a grappling expert, but can't you treat an armdrag from sitting just like a sit out in wrestling? That is, if its an arm drag to take the back, can't one simply sit out and counter by taking the opponents back?
     
  10. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Im not sure. Armdrags seem to be one of the few moves that can be done while the legs are still locked, so a sit out seems difficult because the body could still be trapped.

    Is their something to the sit out that I dont know?
     
  11. spiderguardman

    spiderguardman Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    an armdrag from butterfly guard/half guard is really a 50/50 position, i usually try to adjust the arm he is pulling so i get the same grip he has on my arm, while rolling with the armdrag and on my back geting in the position he was from the begining, from there you can armdrag him
     
  12. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

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    When someone tries to armdrag me I just arm drag them (this has to be fast). So the person is grabbing your arm to set up the arm drag (you know cause it's this persons move or your spidey sense is tingling) just take your arm that is being worked and grab behind their elbow(of the arm that's grabbing yours) shuck it past and do your stuff . It works for me alot . If you can, drill this with a friend and hone your arm drag skills . As far as working it from the butterfly and full guard , it sounds like you are letting the guy control your arms . You have to make the guy worry about something (pass or submission)if you hang out their he is going to work you no matter what . Also try drilling with a friend the techs that are giving you problems , like have your buddy only do arm drags from the butterfly guard and find out what works for you to stop the drag and pass .........Good Luck........
     
  13. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    i love the armdrag but use it almost exclusively from a butterfly or open guard because i think i get more mobility and make a faster move to the back like that. anyways, a while ago i was rolling with someone at renzos, a ig strong wrestler type, and everything i armdragged him, he would sit back to his butterfly guard and armdrag me back, forcing me to go back to my guard and start all over again. he did it consistently, 2 or 3 times, and after we rolled i asked him how he countered it:

    if you look at your grip and it is identical to your parnter's grip, he said you are doing it wrong. you should have your elbow to the outside of his arm, which allows you to turn the corner and prevents the counter (your opponent can't grip your arm back). however, you can always counter an armdrag by raising your elbow up and moving it to the outside of your opponent's arm.

    i hope this makes sense, im gonna take a picture of the grip when my lady friend wakes up and post it up here because it was a really useful tip. she'll be uber-excited about jiu jitsu first thing in the morning (afternoon).
     
  14. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander Green Belt

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    Calibur is asking about arm drag from closed guard. Defending it isn't that hard, as he's noticed, but it doesn't really provide many openings to exploit. If you grip him and don't let him extend your elbow to far it can lead to a good standing pass. You can also go with it, pin his dragging wrist to the mat and then drag his body over top of it, but that takes a fair bit of work and is pretty risky.
     
  15. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    Underarm control on the side he prefers to armdrag. Work the opposite knee, press it to the ground and pass in that direction.

    Or try standing passes. Tough to do an armdrag without opening your legs, and when you do you tend to drop to the ground and be vulnerable to passes.
     
  16. Stephan Kesting

    Stephan Kesting Green Belt

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    I really like colimn's point about arm positioning - thanks for pointing that out!

    The two most common counters are:

    1 -re-armdragging: it really helps to stand up a bit when you do this: let him armdrag you, step forward, and then re-armdrag him, falling directly to rearmount.
    2 - posting the foot on the side towards which he wants to move his body. You can post your foot really close to his hips - now your shin and knee are blocking his route to your back.

    Stephan Kesting
    www.grapplearts.com
     
  17. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    yet another situation avoided by tozi passing.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    So much knowledge being dropped ITT. My white belt brain is literally fucking bamboozled right now. You guys are awesome
     
  19. AgonyandIrony

    AgonyandIrony Gold Belt

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    Holy crap it's you! Thanks for dropping by!

    When I arm drag should I hip out and post to take the back quicker from closed guard?

    A lot of my arm drags from guard tend to fail towards the final portion of taking the back.
     
  20. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Break the guard standing?
     

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