Are you religious?

Are you religious?

  • Total voters
    156
dontsnitch said:
Scholars accept that Christ existed, I'm not sure what your objection is here.
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The gospels are pretty shaky considering when they were written, the large amounts of plagiarism, the councils which tried to mend the accounts, etc. Lots of bad sources. Josephus is extra shaky with multiple Jesus', brother of James (?) called the Christ, one named Damneus Jr, who doesn't sound like Jesus- and the serious possibility of forgery of his accounts too. So take that as a whole, and then subtract every single miracle- they were either impossible or magic tricks, in which case who is Jesus? A stage magician? Really? So definitely throw out the miracles because of that and physics. It doesn't leave much.
 
Work Play said:
The gospels are pretty shaky considering when they were written, the large amounts of plagiarism, the councils which tried to mend the accounts, etc. Lots of bad sources. Josephus is extra shaky with multiple Jesus', brother of James (?) called the Christ, one named Damneus Jr, who doesn't sound like Jesus- and the serious possibility of forgery of his accounts too. So take that as a whole, and then subtract every single miracle- they were either impossible or magic tricks, in which case who is Jesus? A stage magician? Really? So definitely throw out the miracles because of that and physics. It doesn't leave much.
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Yet scholars still unanimously accept that Christ existed.
 
dontsnitch said:
Yet scholars still unanimously accept that Christ existed.
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That's fine, there's an indication that somebody prominent may have been knocking around at the time. But without miracles, what are we left with? If a guy who couldn't do miracles was leading around a bunch of people, then that guy isn't "Jesus" now is he? If you knew Jesus was a fraud or a stage magician, is he still your messiah?
 
Work Play said:
That's fine, there's an indication that somebody prominent may have been knocking around at the time. But without miracles, what are we left with? If a guy who couldn't do miracles was leading around a bunch of people, then that guy isn't "Jesus" now is he? If you knew Jesus was a fraud or a stage magician, is he still your messiah?
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Those are different claims. I never said that scholars believe he is the Christ. I said they believe Jesus existed.
 
dontsnitch said:
Those are different claims. I never said that scholars believe he is the Christ. I said they believe Jesus existed.
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But that Jesus might as well be Bill Williamson the chicken salesman.
 
My issue with organized religion involves how many there are, and that they can't all be "right.' Jainism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Christianity (and all its branches), Judaism, Islam, Shintoism; each with their own ideas, theories as to the beginning of the earth (Judaism and Christianity share a common origin story though) and ideas on how to live one's life. They can't all be correct, can they? That means that one of them is right and the others are wrong, does it not?

Not to mention all of the extinct religions. Mesopotamian polytheism, Greek polytheism, Egyptian polytheism, Norse polytheism. What happened to all of those? Were they right at all? Will our current religions be extinct a thousand years from now?

So which one is right, War Room? Which one is actually the true story of the origin of the universe?
 
Dayman1984 said:
My issue with organized religion involves how many there are, and that they can't all be "right.' Jainism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Christianity (and all its branches), Judaism, Islam, Shintoism; each with their own ideas, theories as to the beginning of the earth (Judaism and Christianity share a common origin story though) and ideas on how to live one's life. They can't all be correct, can they? That means that one of them is right and the others are wrong, does it not?

Not to mention all of the extinct religions. Mesopotamian polytheism, Greek polytheism, Egyptian polytheism, Norse polytheism. What happened to all of those? Were they right at all? Will our current religions be extinct a thousand years from now?

So which one is right, War Room? Which one is actually the true story of the origin of the universe?
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It would be quite startling if the origin of the universe perfectly matched the ramblings of exactly one group of superstitious homo sapiens near a backwater sun in the Milky Way.
 
Work Play said:
It would be quite startling if the origin of the universe perfectly matched the ramblings of exactly one group of superstitious homo sapiens near a backwater sun in the Milky Way.
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Exactly. Which group of desert or jungle dwellers was right about the origin of the universe? Are we supposed to assume that one of these groups nailed it and the others are just wrong? I'd bet they're all wrong.
 
Take your pick. Spoilering because yuuuuge. Right click>View Image to make the text readable.
tree-of-religion.jpg
 
colby25 said:
You're also leaving out one possibility...

That Jesus is God.
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Not at all. By that logic, I'm leaving out infinite possibilities. That Jesus is a radioactive dinner fork in Montana, for example.
 
Work Play said:
Not at all. By that logic, I'm leaving out infinite possibilities. That Jesus is a radioactive dinner fork in Montana, for example.
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So you completely refuse to leave out the possibility that Jesus was God?

...while trying to figure out who Jesus is. Well i say you get to it and start studying and seeking.
 
colby25 said:
So you completely refuse to leave out the possibility that Jesus was God?

...while trying to figure out who Jesus is. Well i say you get to it and start studying and seeking.
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The proposition that there was a man with magical powers who was the son of God is pretty far out there, but my point is that even if he was magical, what makes him also the son of God? I call those Voltrons of Uncertainty. Like taking the concept of a God and mashing it up with the concept of creation. It essentially piles up ridiculous attributes, one on top of another. So Jesus being the son of God is in the same category for me as him being a radioactive dinner fork in Montana. It's just as arbitrary a characteristic to give him. There are an infinite number of weird attributes he could have on top of being magical.

So from the point of view of rationality, of physics applying to this world, I reject any and all miracles. So what are we left with? Take away the miracles and Jesus is not very important. At the very most a controversial spiritual leader who was killed by the Romans. But there isn't any evidence for the crucifixion that isn't also coming from sources who say he was magical. So there are a ton of problems accepting any version of Jesus' existence by anything approaching rigorous standards. I'm inclined by my own sense of reason not to believe any of it.
 
dontsnitch said:
you should define what "religious" means.
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I doubt anyone in this forum can define it properly. Even the High Court of Australia and Supreme Court of the US have dogshit definitions.

I am interested to see what people come up with though.
 
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