Are weight class, some of the biggest scam out there?

The difference in weight classes

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Being the bully matters at the high level.

I understand why guys do it. Look at prime Thiago Alves. He couldn’t compete at 185 cause he was short. So he became a big welterweight to make up for it. It got him to be a top 3 guy for few years
 
there is a huge advantage with cutting weight. otherwise people wouldn't do it.

to put it another way you could say : 'yeah horsepower doesn't matter, my friend with a miata beats porsches on our local track because he's just that skilled as a driver'

but when you get to the top of Formula 1... you have teams spending millions just to gain 0.1 sec of laptime advantage over rivals
 
This discussion about massive weight cuts has been going on ever since the weight classes were introduced. And it will probably continue this way.
But unfortunately, it's impossible to generalize. Just look at the different bodies of fighters. Then there are the different sports people have previously practiced. A wrestler will probably have developed muscles in different places than a kickboxer or karateka. Different muscle mass, different weight. Tall and lean will react differently than short and stocky.
Volk, for example, ran around as a rugby player at 220 pounds (his own words) and is now a champion at 145. Not everyone can do that, and it never will. There's simply no conclusive science that everyone can follow.
And then you have to consider that in the UFC, you're dealing with a greedy Dana White. Unfortunately, you can't afford to make many mistakes, or your UFC career will be over sooner than you think. And unfortunately, fighters have no choice but to take advantage of every opportunity to make a living from fighting. Because with a maximum of two $12,000/$12,000 per year, you can't support a family and pay a team of coaches in the long run. And even less if you losing on the second 12k because of another mistake.
 
Like you've said more size differential the more skill gap narrows.
Topuria had some troubles with Herbert but at the end he won.
It is always laughable to me when anyone on sherdog writes that if you are 10lbs more then you are invincible.
Look how Max was treated when they announced Gathje fight - he was crossed out. Like 90% of people thought he has no chance. Then domination and KO happened.

If we talk wrestling I was wrestling with my friend who by that time was 50lbs heavier than me.
I am more skilled so I won first round. Unfortunately it was best out of 3 and I was really gassed because I had to use more strenght and stamina to match him. At the end I lost.
 
Listen here you fat f...sorry...
I think pro fighters know what they do with basic bs.


 
My two cents: I competed in amateur wrestling for around ten years, weigh-ins typically an hour before matches start. People still cut weight there, and in massive amounts. The biggest cutter I know went from 86 to 68 kg (Greco wrestler in the German D1, teammate of Joel Romeiro in Nuremberg - a lot of the international stars wrestle there, like.currently Ramazanov, Kurugliev, Lomadze...) EVERY WEEKEND OF THE ENTIRE SEASON, 6 years in a row, wimning 90% of his matches. That guy later was one of my coaches. What he taught me is that basically, it depends. Some people will collapse after cutting 2.5 kg, some will just be faster and more aggressive after cutting 10. Some people get injured more often when they cut, some people don't. It's a talent and a skill like any other. Then, some people have styles where a cut will help them massively, because they gain a strength (not necessarily weight) advantage, or can play with their height and reach etc. Some people will also only ever be in top shape if they cut, especially if they cut by exercising (rather than sauna). Some people just don't have the frame size to compete above a certain weight, because their joints can't take the occurring forces. Etc. Then, you have guys who don't need to cut (much), necause they are great technicians, or already stronger than anyone around that weight, or lightning fast etc. So saying that guy X or Y does or doesn't cut doesnt tell us a lot. In reality, most people in wrestling will fall somewhere between the two extremes, and benefit from a sensible but not exaggerated cut. In Germany, the international top guys usually wrestle one weight class above their weight for international competition. Sometimes they go up more, but for example I saw Ramazanov (Olympic gold medalist, European champion at 86 kg) two years ago losing against a very average superheavy, and by a large margin, too.

Now, in other fighting sports, you have some different variables. In striking, reach may be an even more important factor. On the other hand, in BJJ athleticsm isn't rewarded as much, so it makes more sense to find the weight where you can comfortably handle as much training volume as possible, ideally at the top end of a weight class or slightly above, and then maybe do a small cut in the last week.

I have heard the line of banning cutting before. In my opinion, that won't work, people will just end up doing even more dangerous things to cheat the system.
 
I think the UFC is too obsessed with weight divisions. Rankings are frivolous and a big name will get you closer to a title fight than anything else. We see fighters fluctuate between classes all the time just to chase a bigger name. Even the weight class champions are doing this now.

In fact the only weight class where the title matters more than the person who holds it is Heavyweight.

Why not simply sign more catchweight fights? Let guys meet in the middle to create a more fair fight. Fight weight can now be part of the negotiation.
 
When you are on the battlefield, swinging your sword, you square up with a guy and find out that he is about 30 lbs heavier than you and you guys immediately stop your blows for death, and decide to switch opponents so the weights match up and its more of a fair fight. That's how weight classes were created.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
What if no one cut weight and fought were they are supposed to...
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This of course would be ideal, but we all know that's not realistic. Competitors will always look for every advantage when money and pride are at stake.

I've trained and competed for almost 20 years and am now cornering my son in BJJ and wrestling comps. There are kids who win local comps at white belt and then you look them up on smoothcomp and they've been competing for 4 years. But their parents entered them at "novice" which is supposed to be <6 months training.

And that's not the worst of it. One of my son's wrestling teammates placed in her K-2 girls division at states but her dad found out the girl who won the bracket was actually in 3rd grade and had sandbagged the entire season against younger girls. She should have been competing in 3-5th grade division but her parents lied so their 9 year old could beat up on 5 to 8 year olds. The other dad reported the sandbagger to the state wrestling coordinator with online proof of the girl's school profile and she was stripped of her state 1st place medal and the other medalists got bumped up one place. But they didn't reverse any of the other tournament "wins" during the season. And the same dad told me two other girl medalists in other weights at K-2 are in 3rd grade but he doesn't want to report them because it didn't affect his kid and he doesn't want to rock the boat any more. WTF.

Bear in mind this is elementary school age kids. How much more willing will competitors be to lie about age/experience, take PEDs and/or cut stupid amounts of weight (not even against the rules) when scholarships, sponsorships and paychecks are on the line.
 
It's called getting the competitive edge. But when everyone else is doing it, the edge becomes a disadvantage if you don't do it.
 
Having a 15-20 pound size advantage is enormous when both fighters are high level. It means even more the smaller the fighters are.

If you got rid of all weight classes, guys that weigh below 200 pounds would be completely non-competitive. And if you add even 1 or 2 smaller weight classes, then you'll still have the same problem of weight cutting you're talking about.

Weight classes aren't the reason weight cutting is a problem.
 
Rayess said:
I’ve never understood the obsession with cutting massive weight just to avoid being “the smaller guy.” Fighters are literally killing themselves to come in lighter why? Is a 20 lb difference really that significant?


This belief feels more like a myth that got grandfathered into the system. In reality, what truly matters are things like cardio, energy, skill, and mental focus. If anything, extreme weight cuts hurt those factors.


Just look at high-level grappling. Ruotolo (around 180 lbs) looks completely competitive with someone like Felipe Pena (230 lbs). You barely notice a weight difference when the skill gap isn’t there.


So who decided this was such a crucial factor? And why are so many fighters still buying into it?

I’ve been training MMA and grappling for over 10 years. I used to walk around at 175 lbs thinking I needed to bulk up to compete with the “big guys” at the gym. Now I’m 158 lbs and I actually feel better, faster, and better cardio. My opponents? They don’t notice any difference.
At this point, I really believe it’s just a belief system. And like most belief systems in combat sports, it’s worth questioning.


also:
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This has Ben talked about for ever and why they wanted a 165 division.. but the fact is all these guys 155 and up are really 180 to 200 pounds..

Instead of adding a division they should add 10 to 15 pounds to each division.

Or do same day weigh in.

But it all makes to much sense also the reason why boxing has so many weight classes.. a 165 and 195
 
Stupid thread. TS saying size doesn't matter.

<WhatIsThis>
 
Fergelmince said:
hah!

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I remember that.

Conor was supposed to fight RDA at 155 for the title but RDA pulled out so he fought Nate Diaz at SuperDuperHeavyweight and Nate came in at 9 feet tall and skinny-fat 460 pounds.
 
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