Are weight class, some of the biggest scam out there?

Lol yeah a 20 lb difference makes a whole.lot of difference
 
I'd say ask Ninja Rua after the Kharitinov KO, but he probably still doesn't remember it. That is why there are weight classes.
 
Tweak896 said:
Wrestling matters most now and youre not going to fool me weight advantage doesn't help. People cut because it works, if smaller guys start dominating then everyone will move up a weight class. Most LWs or higher could fight HW if they wished.
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Of course weight matters but what i'm trying to say is maybe not to the extent people give it credit for. Wrestling, leverage, timing, and mindset often play a bigger role than a few pounds on the scale.


Also, the psychological factor is huge. A lot of fighters just want to feel like they’re on equal footing. Sometimes it’s not the actual weight that makes the difference, it’s the belief that it does. That belief can affect confidence more than the weight itself.

That's why you have guys like Khabib, Volkanovski or even Jean Silva, that are like little bulldog and can be successful against bigger guys, because they truly believe they are as strong if not stronger ,than someone heavier than them.
 
Rayess said:
If someone that share his training experience, even at an amateur level is a "brag", then it tell a lot about you.

Either you don't train and feel inferior, either you train and a part of you think you are superior.

I've sparred and grapple with people like Aaron Pico, that felt bigger than other pro that were heavier in weight. it's not about "bragging", it's about the experience, the feelings etc... Does weight class matter? Yes, so is the height, specific body shapes, where you are going to adapt your game.

Maybe you are going to wrestle somebody differently or strike differently based on their skills, cardio AND their weight or height attribute.
You miss my point with Ruotolo grappling succesfully guys 50lbs heavier, or when Pacquiao beat Margarito with almost 20lb difference. Weight wasn't the biggest factor They knew how to adapt.

I just feel there's this HUGE belief now, that if you are somehow 10-15lbs lighter you have no chance anymore.
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I've trained for too long now. I'm 125kg.
118kg fighting weight.
I can tell you that grappling, this was where people below 80kg could show superior skill and tap me out.
When wrestling, below 90kg became a problem for opponents. I'm "okay" at wrestling but injuries occur for lighter opponents.

Striking - though I'm average, sparring was rarely done with anybody below 90kg, unless with a skilled boxer. I punch quite hard - but kick extremely hard.

It's completely self explanatory. Weight classes exist for a reason.

I agree that staying in a natural weight class is how things should be but high level combat sports do NOT leave room to take the risk.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Ive been saying this in a different way for years here...

Prepare for the

IF THEY CAN MAKE THE WEIGHT THEY CAN FIGHT THERE ARGUMENTS

Meanwhile if you remove that 24 hours between weigh in and the fight. ...they literally couldnt be that weight. .

.the UFC event should start with the weigh in of fighters .. in a fighter parade theme...all the fighters come out .. they weigh in .they square off...the card starts. ...


But yea...lets just pretend 190lbs are LWs... Cuz thats fair
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What if we had a card where most of the fights got cancelled because everyone was missing weight lol.
 
Rayess said:
Of course weight matters but what i'm trying to say is maybe not to the extent people give it credit for. Wrestling, leverage, timing, and mindset often play a bigger role than a few pounds on the scale.


Also, the psychological factor is huge. A lot of fighters just want to feel like they’re on equal footing. Sometimes it’s not the actual weight that makes the difference, it’s the belief that it does. That belief can affect confidence more than the weight itself.

That's why you have guys like Khabib, Volkanovski or even Jean Silva, that are like little bulldog and can be successful against bigger guys, because they truly believe they are as strong if not stronger ,than someone heavier than them.
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That's a good point, but still a weight class is something which you are stuck with mostly and dedicate your career to. Those 3 names are huge for their weight class. Volk did do well against Islam and Silva up at LW, so fair is fair.

However I'm waiting for the guys who don't cut weight like Holland at MW or Gunnar Nelson at WW, actually do well. Jiri apparently barely cuts weight, but looks giant at LHW. Someone has to have the "confidence" eventually and pull it off and dominate. The guys I've seen fight natural weight end up getting bullied eventually.
 
Rayess said:
Of course weight matters but what i'm trying to say is maybe not to the extent people give it credit for. Wrestling, leverage, timing, and mindset often play a bigger role than a few pounds on the scale.


Also, the psychological factor is huge. A lot of fighters just want to feel like they’re on equal footing. Sometimes it’s not the actual weight that makes the difference, it’s the belief that it does. That belief can affect confidence more than the weight itself.

That's why you have guys like Khabib, Volkanovski or even Jean Silva, that are like little bulldog and can be successful against bigger guys, because they truly believe they are as strong if not stronger ,than someone heavier than them.
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I think you're ignoring size as much as strength here. If a guy can get down to a weight class where he's taller and has a longer reach then that's a big advantage.
 
Rayess said:
Of course weight matters but what i'm trying to say is maybe not to the extent people give it credit for. Wrestling, leverage, timing, and mindset often play a bigger role than a few pounds on the scale.


Also, the psychological factor is huge. A lot of fighters just want to feel like they’re on equal footing. Sometimes it’s not the actual weight that makes the difference, it’s the belief that it does. That belief can affect confidence more than the weight itself.

That's why you have guys like Khabib, Volkanovski or even Jean Silva, that are like little bulldog and can be successful against bigger guys, because they truly believe they are as strong if not stronger ,than someone heavier than them.
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Khabib never moved up a division and was a decent/big sized LW. What you mean he was successful against bigger guys? We never got to see him against much bigger opponents.

I'm assuming you dont train and spar cause only people that say stuff like this have never experienced what it's like to be the smaller competitor against a much bigger skilled guy.

I'm speaking mostly from strikers perspective as I box. The thing puts you at a big disadvantage besides the obvious power and size difference is the cardio and energy you have to exert on offense and defense than you normally would against an opponent of similar size. It's very draining physically and mentally and wears you down.

You have to step in more to land strikes, step out further, move quicker to avoid strikes. You're cardio is compromised.
 
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WillyWarminski said:
I've trained for too long now. I'm 125kg.
118kg fighting weight.
I can tell you that grappling, this was where people below 80kg could show superior skill and tap me out.
When wrestling, below 90kg became a problem for opponents. I'm "okay" at wrestling but injuries occur for lighter opponents.

Striking - though I'm average, sparring was rarely done with anybody below 90kg, unless with a skilled boxer. I punch quite hard - but kick extremely hard.

It's completely self explanatory. Weight classes exist for a reason.

I agree that staying in a natural weight class is how things should be but high level combat sports do NOT leave room to take the risk.
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How were your experience both in wrestling and striking, against people around 90kg with strong mindset, skills (high level timing, coordination, proprioception awareness, rythm etc..), cardio.
Did your weight difference felt that significant?

I get why weight classes exist, there are legit reasons for them. But I still think we give weight too much credit. Like, if you spar a 90kg guy and manage to knock him out, most people will instantly say, “Well yeah, of course, you’re heavier.” But what about your setup? Your timing? Your ability to read and exploit openings?
It’s like those things only start to get acknowledged when both fighters are the same weight. If there’s any weight gap, all the credit gets thrown out the window,as if skill suddenly doesn’t count.
 
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When Ian Garry fought Geoff Neal, Ian weighed 180 in the cage. Neal weighed 200. Ian outclassed the guy that weighed 20lbs more.
 
Rayess said:
I’ve never understood the obsession with cutting massive weight just to avoid being “the smaller guy.”
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But it's the easiest thing to understand ever...

Two people of an equal or similar skill level, the one with an advantage is the bigger man.

Paolo Delutis said:
What if no one cut weight and fought were they are supposed to...
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How can they fight where they are "supposed to" without cutting weight? Just wake up every single day at 170 pounds with zero fluctuation? or should weight classes be looser?
 
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tritestill said:
Yes, this discussion will get to the bottom of this. Forget the compounding years of evidence. That's cool that you train bro, wish you the best.
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I attempted to debate and discuss the issue recently, last week I think, and at that time there was still quite a bit of discrepancy.

Good to hear it has all been squared away.

Let me extend a warm welcome this new generation of dominant non weight cutting enlightened fighters.
 
It wasnt a scam originally, and at least in MMA they are the ones scamming themselves, both guys cut too much to rehydrate about the same the next day with some variances, on average both cut too much only to put it back right after, its not a scam, is a practice that got out of control.

Also, MMA isnt BJJ.
 
Weight matters in fights, and to minimize that is stupid. Weight also matters more for smaller guys, which is why it makes sense to have them closer together at lower weights.

The situation in boxing is fairer because weight classes are closer together overall with far more weight classes, but there aren't enough MMA fighters to make that a reality in the UFC.

What's unfortunate is that the physical/genetic ability to cut a lot of weight is a significant factor in being able to win in the UFC- fighters like Alex that are able to cut massive amounts of weight are at a big advantage; not everyone's physiology is capable of that. It's yet another major thing that could be changed for the better in the UFC, but probably never will.
 
uh ohh... someone is going to have to tell athletes from all combat sports that weight divisions are a sham because a couple of sherbros say so
 
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