are the gracies religious?

[Oldguy]

The god of the bible isn't good. He's an asshole. People say he is good in the same way people say that fairies are good, or mad dogs are good, or bad children are good. They are hoping that by saying that he is good, he won't kill them or destroy all their things or send them to hell. That doesn't make him good.

God allows bad things to happen in the world because:

He doesn't care.

Suffering in sentient beings doesn't bother him.

His wrath and jealousy are more useful in predicting his behavior than his love.

He lets the devil tell him which people or things to hurt, such as happened to Job.

He has sympathy for the devil and will allow them to destroy a herd of pigs instead of putting them back in hell, no matter the cost to the farmer.

Sounds like you should apply for God's job. You certainly feel confident you can do it better.

Let me see, God gave you life. He gives you breath in your lungs. You are on his planet with his sunshine hitting you. You seem to be healthy enough to train Jiu Jitsu. I am guessing he has put people in your life that love you. Most importantly, he offers you the free gift of eternal life if you are willing to take it.

Yep. He must be a total jerk (not).

 

[SummerStriker]

Sounds like you should apply for God's job. You certainly feel confident you can do it better.

Maybe I'll become a Mormon.

 

[Hyperborean]

The Gospels were written pretty soon after Jesus's death. Their final forms seemed to take shape from 65 AD to 100 AD, and Jesus would have died around 30 AD. There is also a lot of historical evidence that several of the Gospels were actually based on even earlier Gospels that were just lost. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are very similar to each other and borrow a lot of exactly the same material. So it's a common theory that they may have been based off a lost Gospel that was written only a few years after Jesus died.

So the Gospels are actually very contemporary to Jesus. They are written down in final form about 1-2 generations after his death. Prior to that, we think they were just told orally.

I don't know enough about Judaism to list exactly why they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, but they have their reasons. Personally I do think he fulfills the prophecy as I am a Christian.

A generation after isn

 

[Hyperborean]

I don't know enough about Judaism to list exactly why they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, but they have their reasons. Personally I do think he fulfills the prophecy as I am a Christian.

But shouldn

 

[Balto]

A generation after isn

 

[Oldguy]

Maybe I'll become a Mormon.

Then, you can become a god with your own planet and thousands of celestial wives.

There is nothing new under the sun. That is exactly why Lucifer was cast out of heaven - he wanted to be a god.

I wouldn't go that route. It is not going to end well.

 

[Balto]

But shouldn

 

[Kenny from MD]

50/50 you are a coward that likes to take shots at God out of pure ignorance. You don't engage in a real debate because you know you will make a fool of yourself.

It is beyond amazing to me that a person could actually have an opinion on something that he knows NOTHING about.

I am not going to sugar coat the truth for you like many Christians. You are lost. Your pride and ignorance will send you to hell if you don't empty your cup.

What shots have I taken at God? Im pretty much taking shots at you as an individual. Considering yourself a "real debate" is giving yourself too much credit.
And I know plenty about religion. I've studied it because as much as I disagree with it, it is at the very least interesting. Read what you just wrote. And you wonder why I am calling you crazy? Get ahold of yourself.

Also, where and with whom do you train?

 

[Oldguy]

But shouldn

 

[Hyperborean]

25-40 years is a pretty short time to really go to myth. Usually that takes a few hundred years for our examples.

For what it is worth, when talking about secular things, we regularly use source material written more than 25-40 years after the fact as reliable historical evidence. This is especially true when we are talking about the ancient world.

The earliest historical accounts we have of Alexander the Great date back to 100 BC or so. But Alexander lived in like 300 BC. Still nobody in secular scholarship thinks Alexander the Great was just a myth. We think he was a real person, and we think the accounts are historically accurate.

Well even in that time frame the stories went supernatural which is why I used the myth term. But lets say embellished instead then. Yes, but regarding history most of the time there is usually also external archeological evidence (as in the case of Alexander) (or multiple written sources) for the excistance of a historical figure. And when there is not, as in the case of Socrates, for instance, there is legitimate academical doubt that the actual person ever existed.

Also there is a difference in claiming person X existed and he was a warlord and person Y existed and he had wings and could fly. We have evidence of warlords existing so a claim like that isn

 

[Oldguy]

What shots have I taken at God? Im pretty much taking shots at you as an individual. Considering yourself a "real debate" is giving yourself too much credit.
And I know plenty about religion. I've studied it because as much as I disagree with it, it is at the very least interesting. Read what you just wrote. And you wonder why I am calling you crazy? Get ahold of yourself.

Also, where and with whom do you train?

You are taking shots at me because I exposed the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. It hurt your pride and you can't handle it.

I am a Gracie Barra black belt.

 

[Hyperborean]

First of all, many Jews accepted Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah. However, it is clearly prophesied in the Old Testament that the most Jews would reject him at his first coming.

Isaiah 53:3 (Old Testament)

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

Why? Israel's rejection of their Messiah allowed the Gospel to go to the gentiles. There are no intellectual reasons. Only hardened hearts.

The good news is that at his Second coming Israel's eyes will be opened.

Zech 12 (Old Testament)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

but that is a very weak rationalization... People not believing in him proves he is real? How do you falsify a claim with a criterion like that?

 

[Kenny from MD]

You are taking shots at me because I exposed the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. It hurt your pride and you can't handle it.

I am a Gracie Barra black belt.

It must be nice to live in a world where you can just make up things an assert it as the truth, that's why it's not worth debating with you. Ouch my poor pride.

That's not what I asked. Where do you train, and with whom?

 

[Gambledub]

No burden of proof shifted. I posted the prophesy of Isaiah 53. Here is the link to 365 more (Before and after)

http://www.bibleprobe.com/365messianicprophecies.htm

50/50, you seem to like to use the word "crazy" when you can't logically support your hate for Jesus Christ. Read Isaiah 53 (I posted it earlier) and give me the exact reasons why that is not a picture of Jesus Christ on the cross.

I know logically exactly why I believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah. You are hiding behind the whole "crazy" label. Step onto the mat.

The bible supports the idea Jesus was a prophet... who would have thought?

I really don't want to get into a religious debate, much less on the grappling forum, but to an atheist what the bible says doesn't hold a ton of weight in an argument about gods existence. Much like suggesting the movie 300 isn't evidence that Xerxes was a 10 foot man who only won because a cripple showed him the way.

While I don't agree with Balto and his viewpoint he has been articulate in his points and explained philosophy behind it. You on the other hand have been this guy of the thread...

 

[Hyperborean]

Judaism is a pretty complex religion, so that's why I am not claiming to be able to fully articulate reasons better than they can. You should look it up or talk to a rabbi to get the proper answer. I can't give it.

My reasoning for being Christian is not circular here. From what I understand about Judaism, they don't accept that Jesus actually resurrected. I believe from the Gospels that he did. I think there is a lot of historical evidence that something major happened there at that time, and I think that there was a real resurrection. So it's not circular but rather what I am inferring looking at the evidence.

I think you are going to find that it is pretty much impossible to truly know all of the nuances of the world religions all at once. Christianity alone is very complex. To understand Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. at a deep level all together would take an incredible amount of time. I have never known anyone who really did know it all in depth. It's just too much for any one person.

Fair enough I suppose. One person can

 

[Oldguy]

but that is a very weak rationalization... People not believing in him proves he is real? How do you falsify a claim with a criterion like that?

That particular quote is not one to justify his existence. It is one of many that state the the Jews would reject their Messiah.

Daniel 9 has an interesting prophesy

Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood.

1. It tells exactly to the day when Jesus would make his triumphal entry into Jerusalem on a donkey (the sign of a King)

2. It says the Messiah would be cut off.

3. A ruler would come and destroy the city of Jerusalem (Nero did this in 70AD)

 

[Oldguy]

That's not what I asked. Where do you train, and with whom?

Why?

For a guy that likes to through around the "crazy" term so much I'm thinking you might be doing a bit of projecting. So, excuse me if I don't give you my home phone and address.

 

[Balto]

Well even in that time frame the stories went supernatural which is why I used the myth term. But lets say embellished instead then. Yes, but regarding history most of the time there is usually also external archeological evidence (as in the case of Alexander) (or multiple written sources) for the excistance of a historical figure. And when there is not, as in the case of Socrates, for instance, there is legitimate academical doubt that the actual person ever existed.

Also there is a difference in claiming person X existed and he was a warlord and person Y existed and he had wings and could fly. We have evidence of warlords existing so a claim like that isn

 

[Kenny from MD]

Why?

Stop being a coward. That's twice you've avoided my question. It's because you are ashamed of your instructor and have no self respect. I demand you answer my question. Where do you train and who is your black belt under? You're going to hell. God hates you for avoiding my question.

 

[seatea]

Ultimately I just want Christianity to get a fair representation for what it is, and it's not being well represented by the really vocal guys who get on the news by saying that the earth is 5000 years old and Satan just put those dino bones in the ground to trick us about Jesus.

But why is their view a less accurate view of what Christianity is than yours? Is it simple a matter of numbers? Such as, 64% of Christians believe such-and-such to be true, therefore such-and-such is Christian. Or is it a matter of authority?