are the gracies religious?

OR

....because you were raised to believe that the God your community worshipped is the one you should be worshipping.

From the outside looking in, this religious dick measuring looks silly.

Actually, that couldn't be farther from the truth. I did not believe in Jesus Christ until I was 25 years old.

I am an electrical engineer. I wanted proof. I researched the Biblical prophesies of his life, death, and resurrection. I looked at the claims he made. The overwhelming evidence is that he was who he said he was.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Christianity is a historical faith based on fact.
 
Actually, that couldn't be farther from the truth. I did not believe in Jesus Christ until I was 25 years old.

I am an electrical engineer. I wanted proof. I researched the Biblical prophesies of his life, death, and resurrection. I looked at the claims he made. The overwhelming evidence is that he was who he said he was.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Christianity is a historical faith based on fact.

based on fact!

[YT]G8GwT7ZotCg[/YT]
 
Snakey, since you have such strong conviction that you are right, please tell me why you believe Jesus Christ did not meet the requirements of the promised Messiah from Old Testament scripture.

Why did he not qualify?
 
I have no problem with theists having faith (I've engaged in this arguments so many times I have both sides memorized), so long as they admit their beliefs are based in faith. Fair enough. But you must have a really funny idea of what qualifies as proof. I wish you could read your posts objectively, to see how utterly insane you actually sound.
 
OR

....because you were raised to believe that the God your community worshipped is the one you should be worshipping.

From the outside looking in, this religious dick measuring looks silly.

That is one of the worst arguments people who don't think commonly throw out. It's actually laughable with 30 seconds of thought. Christianity didn't come from the U.S. you know? It started in the middle east, with the Jewish people. In case you were not aware, most people in the U.S. and other countries in the world did not come from Jerusalem or anywhere near there yet millions are Christians. According to your nonsense that never would have happened.

Heck, Voddie Baucham (a well known Preacher) was born into a family with a single mom who was Buddhist. He didn't know anything about Christianity until he was in his 20s.
 
I have no problem with theists having faith (I've engaged in this arguments so many times I have both sides memorized), so long as they admit their beliefs are based in faith. Fair enough. But you must have a really funny idea of what qualifies as proof. I wish you could read your posts objectively, to see how utterly insane you actually sound.

No one has to prove to anyone that God exists, everyone already knows. People just suppress the truth in unrighteousness because they love their sins. They are willfully ignorant (stupid on purpose). People can't even argue truth without God.
 
No one has to prove to anyone that God exists, everyone already knows. People just suppress the truth in unrighteousness because they love their sins. They are willfully ignorant (stupid on purpose). People can't even argue truth without God.

Thank you for explaining what willfully ignorant means. I was struggling to understand, turning it over and over in my mind until I hit the parenthesis. It was smooth sailing from there on out.
 
I have no problem with theists having faith (I've engaged in this arguments so many times I have both sides memorized), so long as they admit their beliefs are based in faith. Fair enough. But you must have a really funny idea of what qualifies as proof. I wish you could read your posts objectively, to see how utterly insane you actually sound.

The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ was foretold by the prophets. Jesus Christ stepped into history and fulfilled each one.

It is not a situation where you close your eyes and just hope.

If Jesus did not exist and do the above, Christianity is a lie. Christianity is true because God sent his son, just as he promised, to pay the price for our sins.

It is faith based on historical fact.

Kenny - tell me factually why you think Jesus was not the Messiah.

Isaiah 53 (Written 700+ years before Jesus Christ)

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Doesn't matter what you say, my God is always better than your God.
 
I can discuss religion with a guy like Randall, with whom I don't see eye to eye on the issue. He believes some whacky stuff but he's a rational and civil guy. I cannot for the life of me, however, see how arguing with a Google scholar with no regard for the "fact" part of "historical facts" is a worthwhile use of my time. To be clear, I'm not arguing that I'm right, only that you are too batty to go back and forth with.
 
I can discuss religion with a guy like Randall, with whom I don't see eye to eye on the issue. He believes some whacky stuff but he's a rational and civil guy. I cannot for the life of me, however, see how arguing with a Google scholar with no regard for the "fact" part of "historical facts" is a worthwhile use of my time. To be clear, I'm not arguing that I'm right, only that you are too batty to go back and forth with.

Sounds like the excuse of someone who does not have a clue about why he believes what he believes.

My out of shape 45 year old neighbor (and friend) told me Jiu Jitsu wouldn't work on him because he would just punch or bite me if we went to the ground.

My thought was the same - astonishment - this guy doesn't know what he doesn't know.
 
I can discuss religion with a guy like Randall, with whom I don't see eye to eye on the issue. He believes some whacky stuff but he's a rational and civil guy. I cannot for the life of me, however, see how arguing with a Google scholar with no regard for the "fact" part of "historical facts" is a worthwhile use of my time. To be clear, I'm not arguing that I'm right, only that you are too batty to go back and forth with.

For me it is faith and reason combined. It's not just pure faith, but there are definitely some parts to it that require faith.

Probably the biggest faith part is being able to accept that something like the Christian story of Jesus could even be possible in the first place. You don't have to take that it is probably true on faith (that can be built up with more standard reasoning), but you do have to at least be open to the possibility that such a thing could happen in the first place. Most of the arguments against it being true basically boil down to the story itself being so absurd that any reasonable explanation must conclude that it is false.

It's like if you go to a magic show. Even if you don't know how the trick is done, most people will never accept that a truly magical act happened regardless. It does not matter what they saw before their eyes. There must be some trick that they missed.

So the faith part is really 1) believing in a God in the first place and 2) believing that this God could possibly care enough to bother coming to the earth in human form. Number 1 actually has a pretty large standard reasoning component to it too, but Number 2 is pretty faith based for me I would say.

If you can accept those two points, then the historical fact parts of Christianity kick in and help you make the transition from possible to probable. There are a lot of Christians who started in the possible realm and moved to belief because of those parts. But before all of that can happen, you need to have already gotten to a place where you believe in a God that cares about humans.
 
For me it is faith and reason combined. It's not just pure faith, but there are definitely some parts to it that require faith.

Probably the biggest faith part is being able to accept that something like the Christian story of Jesus could even be possible in the first place. You don't have to take that it is probably true on faith (that can be built up with more standard reasoning), but you do have to at least be open to the possibility that such a thing could happen in the first place. Most of the arguments against it being true basically boil down to the story itself being so absurd that any reasonable explanation must conclude that it is false.

It's like if you go to a magic show. Even if you don't know how the trick is done, most people will never accept that a truly magical act happened regardless. It does not matter what they saw before their eyes. There must be some trick that they missed.

So the faith part is really 1) believing in a God in the first place and 2) believing that this God could possibly care enough to bother coming to the earth in human form. Number 1 actually has a pretty large standard reasoning component to it too, but Number 2 is pretty faith based for me I would say.

If you can accept those two points, then the historical fact parts of Christianity kick in and help you make the transition from possible to probable. There are a lot of Christians who started in the possible realm and moved to belief because of those parts. But before all of that can happen, you need to have already gotten to a place where you believe in a God that cares about humans.

Very nicely put.
 
why people who have faith in a higher power has to call themselves a christian or muslim or anything else

all forms of rationality are historical, which is to say, exist within the context of an inherited tradition.
 
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