Are other countries aware of the protests happening in Ireland?

[ithinktheymad]

If you live in a rural area with no centralized plumbing system or water delivery system created by the government, would you still be subject to any taxes? For illustrative purposes my uncle has an estate where he has his own pump providing well water and his own privately installed septic system, if he lived in Ireland would he be subject to these taxes?

Many places would tax your uncle in the United States.

 

[IIIIIIII]

doesn't it rain like everyday up there? why would they need to worry about paying for water?

 

[Gandhi]

Paying for use seems right to me. The issue is how much in conjunction with the overall tax situation.

 

[MMA04]

Many places would tax your uncle in the United States.

I know he gets property taxes and income taxes, he uses publicly funded roads and has access to at least state police and I would imagine local fire departments. I don't believe he technically lives in a municipality though so I think his taxes are paid to the county and to the state...and of course to the federal government.

I figured that water, sewer, etc type taxes would be paid through municipal taxes but I wonder if it's from property taxes.

 

[MMA04]

Paying for use seems right to me. The issue is how much in conjunction with the overall tax situation.

I'm all for paying for use, it's coming to my home town in the U.S., with the caveat that I want to be able to opt out if I create my own rain catchment system. There are places in the U.S. banning rain water collection and independent electricity generation (going off the grid) as building code violations and to me that's when it becomes clear that the laws are intended only to force wealth transfers and not to build more efficient and fiscally responsible utilities.

 

[deise69]

Paying for use seems right to me. The issue is how much in conjunction with the overall tax situation.

Therein lies the problem, Irish people are already paying for their water by way of an increase in income tax in 1977.

It's just a case of the straw that broke the camels back, after tax payers were left holding the debts belonging to private banks. How would people feel if their taxes were increased to cover for this ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9314_Irish_banking_crisis

[YT]PBaFhQufjTQ[/YT]

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/inside-anglo-the-secret-recordings-29366837.html

The audio recordings are from the bank's own internal telephone system and date from the heart of the financial crisis that brought the State to its knees in September 2008.

Anglo itself was within days of complete meltdown

 

[IDL]

The concern I would have is if the end game is a private for profit water monopoly controlled by some multi-national who couldn't care less about the people.

That seems to be the direction things are going these days.

 

[ZroC]

There are 700,000 people in Ireland, a country of 4 million, in poverty with roughly 30-50,000 young people emigrating from the country each year. Those are just the people who are already fucked, the people on the brink are much higher. They've been flinging all kinds of ridiculous taxes and budget cuts at us to raise money for the IMF, but the problem is the people don't have any fucking money. The state are trying to survive by eating their own arms.

Those stats are even worse when you consider that 544,000 people are foreign nationals, many of whom aren't even in the country full time. It's also hilarious that we see reports of the unemployment rate dropping as up to 80,000 people left the country.

If you live in a rural area with no centralized plumbing system or water delivery system created by the government, would you still be subject to any taxes? For illustrative purposes my uncle has an estate where he has his own pump providing well water and his own privately installed septic system, if he lived in Ireland would he be subject to these taxes?

My friend lives in just that kind of place and has his own well which had been there for generations. They still tried to get on his property to install the meter. It has nothing to do with a shortage of water or a need to get people to run it less, those are just excuses, it's about the state stomping down ownership on everything they can - the water is there's, all of it, including the rain water and you should pay them for it.

From the 80s through the 90s when they tried to bring it in before they said water charges would be necessary because global warming would turn Ireland into a desert by the year 2000. They will use any available excuse. Every fucking summer if we get a week of consistent sunshine we hear stories in the news about about how it's going to cause water shortages and droughts.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Silly Irishmen need to understand that privatizing is the most rational way to deal with a commodity like water. Or any commodity, really.

This says on average that privatized water is 33% more than municipal. Goes to show how much you can trust regulators. :icon_lol:

http://documents.foodandwaterwatch.org/doc/A-Cost-Comparison-of-Public-and-Private-Water.pdf

 

[ZroC]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/env...hed-and-headbutted-says-irish-water-1.2021943

Cars and vans transporting workers have been blocked for hours at a time and have been damaged.

Tyres have been slashed and other equipment has been vandalised and barriers and signs burned.

These activities were in addition to protesters disrupting the work of installers though blocking entry to estates parking cars over stop ***** and standing or lying down in the work site or in front of diggers, the letter said.

 

[Gandhi]

Therein lies the problem, Irish people are already paying for their water by way of an increase in income tax in 1977.

It's just a case of the straw that broke the camels back, after tax payers were left holding the debts belonging to private banks. How would people feel if their taxes were increased to cover for this ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9314_Irish_banking_crisis

[YT]PBaFhQufjTQ[/YT]

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/inside-anglo-the-secret-recordings-29366837.html

What does on income tax increase way back from 1977 (lol) have to do with taxes?

 

[deise69]

What does on income tax increase way back from 1977 (lol) have to do with taxes?

Domestic rates were abolished in 1977 and replaced by increases in VAT and Income Tax to cover the cost of water and household waste. The implementation of rates for water are seen as another austerity tax, for something we are already paying for.

 

[Gandhi]

Domestic rates were abolished in 1977 and replaced by increases in VAT and Income Tax to cover the cost of water and household waste. The implementation of rates for water are seen as another austerity tax, for something we are already paying for.

Ok got it. A use tax would work better but then income taxes should come down in a way so that the change is not regressive and it is fiscally neutral.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Do it the old fashioned way and bring a bucket down to the river.

 

[5H3RD0G]

They are thinking ahead. Imagine if there is no water left, then what....................... at least they will look somewhat intelligent. :icon_lol: It's to start now people use water like crazy I learned in some complexes since they don't pay a water bill they can use as much as they like that has to change immediately or our resources will cause riots galore. It's good that Ireland is stepping up to the plate but let's aim for a good reason this isn't really the best time to protest, better to conserve and not be wasteful. On the other hand the government can use it as an excuse to raise prices dramatically which does require protest.

 

[ZroC]

They are thinking ahead. Imagine if there is no water left, then what....................... at least they will look somewhat intelligent. :icon_lol: It's to start now people use water like crazy I learned in some complexes since they don't pay a water bill they can use as much as they like that has to change immediately or our resources will cause riots galore. It's good that Ireland is stepping up to the plate but let's aim for a good reason this isn't really the best time to protest, better to conserve and not be wasteful. On the other hand the government can use it as an excuse to raise prices dramatically which does require protest.

There's no money left. Almost half the country is broke. Where's the money even going to come from? Even removing the point that Irish people believe they have a natural right to drink water they don't even have the money to pay for it. Even without taxes Ireland is among the most expensive country on Earth (at least it would be officially if the government filed their paper work honestly.)

 

[lowsingle]

i pay a negligible amount for the water i use

makes sense, someone has to filter it, treat it, set up pipelines to my house and then send it to me

the rain tax is stupid though

 

[IDL]

Do it the old fashioned way and bring a bucket down to the river.

There is a problem here though.

Nobody is making money off of it.

 

[2DUM2TAP]

We pay for use in Canada. Water charge is ridiculous too considering we have the worlds largest supply of frest water. When it comes to supply vs. demand we are getting hosed.

 

[I Am Legion]

There are plenty of scenarios where the world is under huge water shortages. Water is th enew money. Its a basic need. There will be Ice Pirates for sure.