Social Are illegal immigrants mostly bad people?

[Hog-train]

Which doesn't contradict my stance that you keep on glossing over while clutching your pearls about working conditions you don't want to fix.

Exploited underpaid workers and sometimes employing children is clutching at pearls?

For fruits, mid single digits, but heavily contingent on tariffs. Something like poultry or livestock, even higher because its more labor intensive and Brazil and Canada being top exporters.

Your own link literally says:

If average farmworker earnings rose by 40%, and the increase were passed on entirely to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables for a typical household would rise by $25 per year.

Oh no! Americans won't be willing to pay an extra $25 per year!

Then you read this line I'm sure. Where do you think that tax revenue went?

"Moreover, the transfers of funds did not come at the expense of counties unaffected by the IRCA, as they were offset by increases in tax revenue caused by legalised immigrants paying more in state, sales, and income taxes."

Nah not buying it.

1. The amnesty act in the 1980's affected mostly people who have been here for years, rather than millions of brand new entrants who came in the last 4 years.
2. It only resulted in 1.3 million that eventually naturalized. A lot more easier to absorb.

What you're proposing is mass amnesty for potentially 20-30 million people and acting like it will have no negative financial impact. A ridiculous assertion.

That is for the state of New York, which you would have noticed if you read the article. Most states don't allow Medicaid access for applicants.

There are other states that give Medicaid to all illegals (some regardless of status) - California, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, DC, Oregon, Washington, etc.

Am I've argued for the former, not the latter. Nice strawman as you flail about. Way to pull an imaginary definition of amnesty out of your ass.

My statement talks about amnesty first. So you want mass amnesty then?

How are you this bad at basic economics. Your average Korean who pays $10 for a meal has a median annual household of $42,000. Your average American who pays $15 for a meal has a median annual household income of $83,000.

Who is paying more for a meal, the one paying $10 or the one paying 50% more but earning almost 100% more income?

Again, Koreans spend equal amounts of their income on eating out vs eating in, if not more on actual groceries.

Yea obviously Koreans are relatively paying more for food compared to income. I'm not disputing that.

My point is that a big bulk of the increased cost is also due to cultural factors - they eat out far more than Americans. Because the relative cost of eating out (taking into account income differences) is still cheaper in Korea than the US.

And my original point (which you haven't disputed but just went on a tangent on) is that other countries like South Korea, Japan and the Middle East import a of of their fruits. Yet they don't have these out of control prices like you were asserting would happen in the US if we paid farm workers more.

Half of undocumented households pay taxes via ITNs. The rest you can also put the onus on immigrants to provide character references or proof of employment via interview.

The point where they needed to prove character references and no criminal record (in their home countries) is when they entered.

What happened in reality is that we let in millions in a very short period of time and did no due diligence and did not find out whether they had criminal records in their home countries. We just caught and released them with a future court date and a lot of them just threw their passports away before entry too. So we have no fucking idea who TF these people are.

On top of that, there is the other half that is not paying.

Also it's literally impossible for an immigrant to not pay taxes, sales taxes exist.

Sales taxes are a tiny pittance compared to income tax.

Or we can live in reality and instead of trying to do the impossible and deport 10+ million people, we can offer a path to citizenship and work on improving bordering countries so stop their exodus to the US.

1. It's far more than 10 million illegals in this country.
2. The huge influx was from Venezuela. The US had nothing to do with the collapse of Venezuela. It was Hugo Chavez and then the collapse of their petroleum prices that caused the exodus.
3. I never said I was against a path to citizenship. I'm for it under certain conditions.

This is what I basically want:

1. A bill passed that gives a path to citizenship for illegals that have been in the country for a certain number of years paying taxes and committed no crimes. Perhaps 7-8 years of clean living. Essentially a one time amnesty.
2. There are about 650,000 illegals in the country that have committed crimes. I want them all deported.
3. There are 1.4 million that have FINAL orders of deportation. That means they all got full due process at great taxpayer expense and did not quality, but we weren't enforcing their deportation for decades. I want them all promptly deported.
4. Give all DACA a fast and easy process to get citizenship - as long as no felony criminal record.
5. Hire significantly more immigration judges to process all the millions of people waiting on asylum cases. The vast majority of which are bullshit. No more "apply for asylum" and wait years in the country loophole.
6. Deport all the recent hundreds of thousands (over a million if you count TPS and CBP One app) that streamed in from Venezuela using expedited removal.

Again, if you want to actually stop illegal immigration, no amount of sharks with lasers and barbed wire will stop it, you have to address the economic root causes.

Obviously.

 

[avenue94]

Exploited underpaid workers and sometimes employing children is clutching at pearls?

If you claim to oppose the exploitation of underpaid workers and your solution is to swap it for a slightly less exploitative guest worker program, you probably don't care much about the welfare of said workers.

Do you see the UFW advocating for no path to citizenship and only relying on guest worker programs?

If average farmworker earnings rose by 40%, and the increase were passed on entirely to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables for a typical household would rise by $25 per year.

Oh no! Americans won't be willing to pay an extra $25 per year!

That's for lower touch products, you'd see higher impacts on live stock. All told, probably closer to 10%. Keep in mind Americans lost their shit about 11.4% grocery price inflation in 2022 and 5% in 2023.

Nah not buying it.

1. The amnesty act in the 1980's affected mostly people who have been here for years, rather than millions of brand new entrants who came in the last 4 years.
2. It only resulted in 1.3 million that eventually naturalized. A lot more easier to absorb.

What you're proposing is mass amnesty for potentially 20-30 million people and acting like it will have no negative financial impact. A ridiculous assertion.

America's population grew by over 40% since IRCA, which gave legal status to 2.7 million. If you insist on arbitrarily keeping the same ratio for no reason, that's room for close to 4 million receiving legal status.

And lol ok, so you aren't buying that these folks brought in a huge amount of tax revenue and economic growth to the country, because you don't want to believe evidence presented to you.

Do you have any evidence that these new citizens were a net drain on America?

There are other states that give Medicaid to all illegals (some regardless of status) - California, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, DC, Oregon, Washington, etc.

Again, most states do not allow aslyum applicants to use Medicaid. Let me quote your original claim. Do you admit you're lying now?

On top of that, any illegal alien adults who come in and then apply for asylum also qualify for Medicaid and the other social services. They literally just need to apply for asylum.

My statement talks about amnesty first. So you want mass amnesty then?

Since there's no point in trying to deport over 10 millions folks and toss the country into a dumb recession, yup, a path to citizenship for those who've been working and staying out of trouble.

Yea obviously Koreans are relatively paying more for food compared to income. I'm not disputing that.

My point is that a big bulk of the increased cost is also due to cultural factors - they eat out far more than Americans. Because the relative cost of eating out (taking into account income differences) is still cheaper in Korea than the US.

Again, that's simply not true. Koreans pay significantly more for groceries than Americans do. And no, the relative cost of eating out is not cheaper in Korea. Literally, your average American household makes twice as much money in a year than their Korean counterpart.

Eating out accounts for less than one-third of the average Korean's food expenses. You could completely eliminate eating out and Koreans spend more of their income on groceries than Americans do on groceries and eating out.

And my original point (which you haven't disputed but just went on a tangent on) is that other countries like South Korea, Japan and the Middle East import a of of their fruits. Yet they don't have these out of control prices like you were asserting would happen in the US if we paid farm workers more.

Did you forgot the part where South Korea has the 2nd highest food prices in OECD?

Food costs are a significant contributor to why Korea has an elderly poverty rate of 40%, the highest in OECD. You don't think them being able to halve their food bills would be an appreciable difference?
https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/06/16/MYOLRF6YIFFAXDCOI6WZ7OR23U/
How are you so adamant at playing the Korean card but don't even know basic facts about the country?

The point where they needed to prove character references and no criminal record (in their home countries) is when they entered.

What happened in reality is that we let in millions in a very short period of time and did no due diligence and did not find out whether they had criminal records in their home countries. We just caught and released them with a future court date and a lot of them just threw their passports away before entry too. So we have no fucking idea who TF these people are.

On top of that, there is the other half that is not paying.

Sounds like you have a chance to halve the population of legalized residents. You should be ecstatic here.

Sales taxes are a tiny pittance compared to income tax.

Close to half of American households pay more in sales tax than income tax. Most states take in almost as much sales tax as income tax.

How are you this bad at economics.

1. It's far more than 10 million illegals in this country.
2. The huge influx was from Venezuela. The US had nothing to do with the collapse of Venezuela. It was Hugo Chavez and then the collapse of their petroleum prices that caused the exodus.
3. I never said I was against a path to citizenship. I'm for it under certain conditions.

Sure, if we gloss over economic sanctions further crippling oil exports.

This is what I basically want:

1. A bill passed that gives a path to citizenship for illegals that have been in the country for a certain number of years paying taxes and committed no crimes. Perhaps 7-8 years of clean living. Essentially a one time amnesty.
2. There are about 650,000 illegals in the country that have committed crimes. I want them all deported.
3. There are 1.4 million that have FINAL orders of deportation. That means they all got full due process at great taxpayer expense and did not quality, but we weren't enforcing their deportation for decades. I want them all promptly deported.
4. Give all DACA a fast and easy process to get citizenship - as long as no felony criminal record.
5. Hire significantly more immigration judges to process all the millions of people waiting on asylum cases. The vast majority of which are bullshit. No more "apply for asylum" and wait years in the country loophole.
6. Deport all the recent hundreds of thousands (over a million if you count TPS and CBP One app) that streamed in from Venezuela using expedited removal.

It's not the worst wish list, but it's comically impractical given how hard it is to deport millions of people, period. Either you have civil rights for everyone or you curtail them by deporting millions of people in a very short timeline.

It's one or the other.

 

[Hog-train]

If you claim to oppose the exploitation of underpaid workers and your solution is to swap it for a slightly less exploitative guest worker program, you probably don't care much about the welfare of said workers.

If you care so much about exploitation of undocumented workers, you wouldn't be giving excuses by citing how much all farm workers (which includes legal residents) make on average - completely ignoring people paid under the books, on small farms where federal minimum wage doesn't apply, or workers that get paid by pieces picked.

Stop trying to portray it like undocumented farm workers are getting paid fairly - they're not.

That's for lower touch products, you'd see higher impacts on live stock. All told, probably closer to 10%. Keep in mind Americans lost their shit about 11.4% grocery price inflation in 2022 and 5% in 2023.

1. You're just pulling numbers out of your ass that paying farm workers more will make consumer prices rise 10%. Source? Your own source you linked literally says $25 per year.

2. And even if it was 10%, your solution is to continually exploit undocumented farm workers because the American public doesn't want to pay 10% more?

America's population grew by over 40% since IRCA, which gave legal status to 2.7 million. If you insist on arbitrarily keeping the same ratio for no reason, that's room for close to 4 million receiving legal status.

And lol ok, so you aren't buying that these folks brought in a huge amount of tax revenue and economic growth to the country, because you don't want to believe evidence presented to you.

America's population grew organically because that was literally decades ago. That 2.7 million was not the needle mover.

What you're proposing is giving amnesty to literally millions that came within the last 4 years and saying they'll be a net positive. That is absolute horseshit.

Any additional tax revenue they'll pay is not offset by the cost in Medicaid, housing assistance, SNAP, and all the other social services. The vast majority of them will not be in a higher tax bracket. They'll toe the poverty line.

Do you have any evidence that these new citizens were a net drain on America?

Do you have any evidence that these new citizens won't be a net drain on America? The onus is on you to give proof - not the other way around.

The House Budget committee has said illegals immigrants are a net fiscal drain amounting to 70K per illegal.

https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

"Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low-income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create."

Again, most states do not allow aslyum applicants to use Medicaid. Let me quote your original claim. Do you admit you're lying now?

Bullshit. You're the one lying.

ALL states give Emergency Medicaid to asylum seekers and several states give full Medicaid.

Since there's no point in trying to deport over 10 millions folks and toss the country into a dumb recession, yup, a path to citizenship for those who've been working and staying out of trouble.

I want all the criminals (650K), ones with final deportation orders (1.4 millions) and all the recent arrivals that have no valid claim deported.

Again, that's simply not true. Koreans pay significantly more for groceries than Americans do. And no, the relative cost of eating out is not cheaper in Korea. Literally, your average American household makes twice as much money in a year than their Korean counterpart.

Eating out accounts for less than one-third of the average Korean's food expenses. You could completely eliminate eating out and Koreans spend more of their income on groceries than Americans do on groceries and eating out.

You have no idea WTF you're talking about. A typical dinner at a Korean restaurant costs 10,000 – 15,000 KRW ($7.50 – $11.50). And that's without tip since there is no tipping culture there. A typical lunch is even less. Highly doubt you've even been there.

The Cost of Travel in South Korea: My 2025 Budget Breakdown

I'm always so excited to return to South Korea. I haven’t been to many places where I've felt such a cohesive blend of old and new, but South Korea is one

www.neverendingfootsteps.com

2025 prices.

Here’s some examples of what we spent on some of the various dishes we tried:

• Fried chicken for lunch: 10,000 KRW ($7.50)
• Bibimbap for lunch: 9,500 KRW ($7)
• Bindaetteok (mung bean pancake) as a street food snack: 5,000 KRW ($4)
• Dakgalbi (stir-fried chicken) for dinner: 6,500 KRW ($4.50)
• Unlimited Korean BBQ on a weekday lunch: 15,000 KRW ($11.50)
• Samgyetang (chicken ginseng soup) at a fancy restaurant for lunch: 19,000 KRW ($14.50)
• Street food snacks: 3,000 KRW ($2) each
• A pint of local draft beer in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• A bottle of soju in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• A 750ml bottle of makgeolli in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• An extremely fancy cocktail in a world-class bar: 23,000 KRW ($17.50)

Did you forgot the part where South Korea has the 2nd highest food prices in OECD?

Food costs are a significant contributor to why Korea has an elderly poverty rate of 40%, the highest in OECD. You don't think them being able to halve their food bills would be an appreciable difference?
https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/06/16/MYOLRF6YIFFAXDCOI6WZ7OR23U/
How are you so adamant at playing the Korean card but don't even know basic facts about the country?

I didn't only play the "Korean card." I said countries like Korea, South Korea and the Middle East import a lot of their fruits and don't pay exorbitant prices for them. Hence, the US can also import fruits if it gets too cost prohibitive growing them here.

You're the one extrapolating that to suit your argument.

Sounds like you have a chance to halve the population of legalized residents. You should be ecstatic here.

There's a big difference in your own family member behaving badly and some complete stranger coming in and committing crimes. The stranger can fuck off.

Close to half of American households pay more in sales tax than income tax. Most states take in almost as much sales tax as income tax.

That's because a significant portion are below the poverty line so don't pay federal income tax. That doesn't take into account STATE income tax they pay.

The fact of the matter is income tax is the largest revenue source for the American government - by a mile. To compare it to sales tax on goods is completely laughable.

How are you this bad at economics.

Sure, if we gloss over economic sanctions further crippling oil exports.

That doesn't make us responsible for millions of Venezuelans streaming out of their borders and who went through multiple other countries to sneak into the US.

GTFO.

It's not the worst wish list, but it's comically impractical given how hard it is to deport millions of people, period. Either you have civil rights for everyone or you curtail them by deporting millions of people in a very short timeline.

Deporting illegal migrants is not a violation of their civil rights. It's literally just enforcing existing laws.

No one said it was possible to deport every illegal.

I already stated what I wanted. Deport all criminals, all people with final deportation orders and use expedited removal for all the new people that came within the last 2 years with BS asylum claims. That is completely feasible to do in 4 years.

 

[SandisLL]

God... if you want to play that game. Take a DNA test and you'll find you have DNA from ancestors all over the planet... lol

For fucks sake

If you're family has lived somewhere for more than a few generations, then that's basically where you're from.

Pocahontas claimed to be native Indian and got into Harvard with 1/32 in her. lol

50% of SE Asia and Middle East likely has Genghis Khan somewhere in them

I know my lineage for generations... including metrics...

While if education, I think it should be merit and exams etc based access not cos origin, race or religion etc.

Science might have further development only if we have merit and skills based criteria.....

 

[SandisLL]

South Korea does manufacture approx 20% from all chips used in this world for RAM used in phones, computers and servers.
Such " shithole ".

 

[SandisLL]

If you care so much about exploitation of undocumented workers, you wouldn't be giving excuses by citing how much all farm workers (which includes legal residents) make on average - completely ignoring people paid under the books, on small farms where federal minimum wage doesn't apply, or workers that get paid by pieces picked.

Stop trying to portray it like undocumented farm workers are getting paid fairly - they're not.



1. You're just pulling numbers out of your ass that paying farm workers more will make consumer prices rise 10%. Source? Your own source you linked literally says $25 per year.

2. And even if it was 10%, your solution is to continually exploit undocumented farm workers because the American public doesn't want to pay 10% more?



America's population grew organically because that was literally decades ago. That 2.7 million was not the needle mover.

What you're proposing is giving amnesty to literally millions that came within the last 4 years and saying they'll be a net positive. That is absolute horseshit.

Any additional tax revenue they'll pay is not offset by the cost in Medicaid, housing assistance, SNAP, and all the other social services. The vast majority of them will not be in a higher tax bracket. They'll toe the poverty line.



Do you have any evidence that these new citizens won't be a net drain on America? The onus is on you to give proof - not the other way around.

The House Budget committee has said illegals immigrants are a net fiscal drain amounting to 70K per illegal.

https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

"Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low-income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create."



Bullshit. You're the one lying.

ALL states give Emergency Medicaid to asylum seekers and several states give full Medicaid.



I want all the criminals (650K), ones with final deportation orders (1.4 millions) and all the recent arrivals that have no valid claim deported.



You have no idea WTF you're talking about. A typical dinner at a Korean restaurant costs 10,000 – 15,000 KRW ($7.50 – $11.50). And that's without tip since there is no tipping culture there. A typical lunch is even less. Highly doubt you've even been there.

The Cost of Travel in South Korea: My 2025 Budget Breakdown

I'm always so excited to return to South Korea. I haven’t been to many places where I've felt such a cohesive blend of old and new, but South Korea is one

www.neverendingfootsteps.com

2025 prices.

Here’s some examples of what we spent on some of the various dishes we tried:

• Fried chicken for lunch: 10,000 KRW ($7.50)
• Bibimbap for lunch: 9,500 KRW ($7)
• Bindaetteok (mung bean pancake) as a street food snack: 5,000 KRW ($4)
• Dakgalbi (stir-fried chicken) for dinner: 6,500 KRW ($4.50)
• Unlimited Korean BBQ on a weekday lunch: 15,000 KRW ($11.50)
• Samgyetang (chicken ginseng soup) at a fancy restaurant for lunch: 19,000 KRW ($14.50)
• Street food snacks: 3,000 KRW ($2) each
• A pint of local draft beer in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• A bottle of soju in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• A 750ml bottle of makgeolli in a restaurant: 4,000 KRW ($3)
• An extremely fancy cocktail in a world-class bar: 23,000 KRW ($17.50)

I didn't only play the "Korean card." I said countries like Korea, South Korea and the Middle East import a lot of their fruits and don't pay exorbitant prices for them. Hence, the US can also import fruits if it gets too cost prohibitive growing them here.

You're the one extrapolating that to suit your argument.



There's a big difference in your own family member behaving badly and some complete stranger coming in and committing crimes. The stranger can fuck off.



That's because a significant portion are below the poverty line so don't pay federal income tax. That doesn't take into account STATE income tax they pay.

The fact of the matter is income tax is the largest revenue source for the American government - by a mile. To compare it to sales tax on goods is completely laughable.



That doesn't make us responsible for millions of Venezuelans streaming out of their borders and who went through multiple other countries to sneak into the US.

GTFO.



Deporting illegal migrants is not a violation of their civil rights. It's literally just enforcing existing laws.

No one said it was possible to deport every illegal.

I already stated what I wanted. Deport all criminals, all people with final deportation orders and use expedited removal for all the new people that came within the last 2 years with BS asylum claims. That is completely feasible to do in 4 years.

Restaurant isn't fast food like MC... MC is fast food.

In restaurant they does have Door man, while his functions mainly are to encourage use more services etc, for kicking out someone they does have security guys, then they does have wardrobe with employee, comfortable toilet and so on, plus waiters picking your orders, delivering stuff you had ordered etc....

To be fair more than 50 % cafeterias and restaurants in europe doesn't meet minimum criteria , in U.S it is lesser than 10%....from all these.

 

[avenue94]

If you care so much about exploitation of undocumented workers, you wouldn't be giving excuses by citing how much all farm workers (which includes legal residents) make on average - completely ignoring people paid under the books, on small farms where federal minimum wage doesn't apply, or workers that get paid by pieces picked.

Stop trying to portray it like undocumented farm workers are getting paid fairly - they're not.

Do you not understand basic English? I have posted my stance repeatedly, illegal labor is exploited and a lot of those workers actually make above minimum wage.

Illegal labor is obviously exploited, but here's the distinction you miss. Folks love to imply that if only farms paid minimum wage Americans would do those jobs. Yet a lot of illegal labor makes above minimum wage, which means that entire premise you parrot is bullshit. We're not talking paying minimum wage to get Joe American to work the fields, you're talking a massive premium on that with all the downstream effects.

1. You're just pulling numbers out of your ass that paying farm workers more will make consumer prices rise 10%. Source? Your own source you linked literally says $25 per year.

2. And even if it was 10%, your solution is to continually exploit undocumented farm workers because the American public doesn't want to pay 10% more?

1. $25 is 4%, dear god do basic math for once. That's just for fruits and vegetables, which are lower labor cost products. Poultry and beef are much more labor intensive, and we've also tariffed some of our biggest suppliers (Brazil). That's why I said high single, low double digit percentage increases are probable if you magically eliminate all illegal labor and have Americans do the work/import alternatives.

America's population grew organically because that was literally decades ago. That 2.7 million was not the needle mover.

What you're proposing is giving amnesty to literally millions that came within the last 4 years and saying they'll be a net positive. That is absolute horseshit.

Any additional tax revenue they'll pay is not offset by the cost in Medicaid, housing assistance, SNAP, and all the other social services. The vast majority of them will not be in a higher tax bracket. They'll toe the poverty line.

Why do you assume someone who starts poor finishes their life poor? Immigrants and their children tend to move quite quickly up the income ladder. Do you have any data to back up your claim?

Do you have any evidence that these new citizens won't be a net drain on America? The onus is on you to give proof - not the other way around.

The House Budget committee has said illegals immigrants are a net fiscal drain amounting to 70K per illegal.

https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

"Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. This result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work, and they do pay some taxes, including income and payroll taxes. The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and tax payments. It also means a large share qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Like their less-educated and low-income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create."

I quoted you a study on IRCA and you claimed ignorance lol.

And now you're parroting the same ridiculous junk science, CIS always makes the same errors in its data to twist results.
1. Counting American citizens who are the children of illegal immigrants as costs, but not including their tax contributions once they start working.
2. Overcounting welfare costs and health care costs.
3. Etc etc, to call this junk science is generous.

Bullshit. You're the one lying.

ALL states give Emergency Medicaid to asylum seekers and several states give full Medicaid.

Emergency Medicaid is very different from Medicaid. You're the one who lied and said all asylum applicants get access to Medicaid, which is flagrantly false.

You have no idea WTF you're talking about. A typical dinner at a Korean restaurant costs 10,000 – 15,000 KRW ($7.50 – $11.50). And that's without tip since there is no tipping culture there. A typical lunch is even less. Highly doubt you've even been there.

I quoted you numbers from the Korean Finance Ministry. Are you telling me that the Korean government is lying about what their citizens spend on food?

"Out of their average monthly disposable income of 847,039 won ($673), their food expenses came to 357,754 won — 251,783 won on groceries and 105,971 won on dining out."

I didn't only play the "Korean card." I said countries like Korea, South Korea and the Middle East import a lot of their fruits and don't pay exorbitant prices for them. Hence, the US can also import fruits if it gets too cost prohibitive growing them here.

You're the one extrapolating that to suit your argument.

How does Korea have the second highest food costs in OECD and you don't consider that exhorbitant pricing?

That's because a significant portion are below the poverty line so don't pay federal income tax. That doesn't take into account STATE income tax they pay.

The fact of the matter is income tax is the largest revenue source for the American government - by a mile. To compare it to sales tax on goods is completely laughable.

So is your stance that Americans citizens who don't qualify to owe income tax don't deserve citizenship then? Or is it just those nasty undocumented immigrants?

Deporting illegal migrants is not a violation of their civil rights. It's literally just enforcing existing laws.

No one said it was possible to deport every illegal.

I already stated what I wanted. Deport all criminals, all people with final deportation orders and use expedited removal for all the new people that came within the last 2 years with BS asylum claims. That is completely feasible to do in 4 years.

Deporting illegal immigrants isn't a violation of civil rights. But tossing out the 4th Amendment for all Americans in order to hunt down illegal immigrants because the government can't be bothered to find probably cause is a violation of civil rights.

 

[Siver!]

I can't believe 26 voted "Yes" to that question lol

It doesn't even say "are illegal immigrants mostly bad for a country/economy", just are they actually bad people lol

I guess it's lost on the 26 that in many instances, there are NO options to apply for legal migration. This is why it's been a case for so long of "get there, then assess your rights" - because until you get there, you've got no chance whatsoever.

 

[cincymma79]

When you hear the term illegal immigrant there is strong negative connotation that they are bad people.

What's your perspective on that?

Are they mostly bad? Or they are decent people coming from a desperate situation, just trying to make way to greener pastures?

most? no. can you show me who’s who or are we just waiting until they rape or kill someone

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I guess it's lost on the 26 that in many instances, there are NO options to apply for legal migration. This is why it's been a case for so long of "get there, then assess your rights" - because until you get there, you've got no chance whatsoever.

Illegals have no path to legality even WHEN they arrive. Marrying a citizen is really the only viable one and even there, it's risky because you have to explain how/why you've been illegal all this time.

Anyway, workers have been fixing my job's building since about May. Major foundation and roof repairs for the most part. Obviously there's no way to tell if they're legal or not, but the vast majority of workers are definitely recent immigrants because they all speak Spanish.

There's no way in HELL Americans are doing this sort of work for anywhere near the same wages. The summers are brutal here, the heat is stifling and these dudes are out here sweating for 10 hours a day. This work is so shitty and undesirable, there's even a few women doing it!

This is the sort of thing that really sinks in when you see it with your own eyes.

 

[Hog-train]

Do you not understand basic English? I have posted my stance repeatedly, illegal labor is exploited and a lot of those workers actually make above minimum wage.

Do you not understand basic English? A lot of illegal labor do NOT get paid above minimum wage because they get paid "per piece picked" (which is a loophole legally allowed) or they get paid in cash under the books or they work on small farms where minimum wage doesn't apply.

1. $25 is 4%, dear god do basic math for once. That's just for fruits and vegetables, which are lower labor cost products. Poultry and beef are much more labor intensive, and we've also tariffed some of our biggest suppliers (Brazil). That's why I said high single, low double digit percentage increases are probable if you magically eliminate all illegal labor and have Americans do the work/import alternatives.

An additional $25 spent annually is a 4% increase in food costs? LMAO ok. Stop preposterously lying. That would mean the other 96% is only $600 in annual spending.

Why do you assume someone who starts poor finishes their life poor? Immigrants and their children tend to move quite quickly up the income ladder. Do you have any data to back up your claim?

That's not true at all. The poor tends to stay poor. And for the ones that do make it, it takes a generation for that to happen.

I quoted you a study on IRCA and you claimed ignorance lol.

And now you're parroting the same ridiculous junk science, CIS always makes the same errors in its data to twist results.
1. Counting American citizens who are the children of illegal immigrants as costs, but not including their tax contributions once they start working.
2. Overcounting welfare costs and health care costs.
3. Etc etc, to call this junk science is generous.

This is from the official House Budget committee official website. Sourcing data from a study by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine which serves as the collective scientific national academy of the United States of America.

https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

Your link is critiquing a 2017 study by FAIR, which is a non-profit private organization - two completely separate entities.

That's a strawman because no one mentioned any FAIR study except you just now. So that's irrelevant to this discussion.

What you have to disprove is the the official House budget appraisal on the .gov website. Disprove it.

Again, the onus is on YOU to prove giving full amnesty for millions won't be a net fiscal drain.

Hey let's give full citizenship to millions of poor people who can't speak English and have no skills! It'll be good for the economy!" LMAO

Emergency Medicaid is very different from Medicaid. You're the one who lied and said all asylum applicants get access to Medicaid, which is flagrantly false.

You said NO asylum seekers get any Medicaid. They ALL get Emergency Medicaid and several states give FULL Medicaid - including some of the most populous states. California is a prime example which has a 39 million people population.

So your contention that asylum seekers get no Medicaid is patently false.

I quoted you numbers from the Korean Finance Ministry. Are you telling me that the Korean government is lying about what their citizens spend on food?

"Out of their average monthly disposable income of 847,039 won ($673), their food expenses came to 357,754 won — 251,783 won on groceries and 105,971 won on dining out."

How does Korea have the second highest food costs in OECD and you don't consider that exhorbitant pricing?

Do you understand how to read? I'm not disputing how much Koreans collectively spend on food in relation to income.

I'm saying they go OUT TO EAT a lot more because it is relatively less expensive to go out or do takeout then here in the US.

So is your stance that Americans citizens who don't qualify to owe income tax don't deserve citizenship then? Or is it just those nasty undocumented immigrants?

You're Mr. Strawman. aren't you? When TF did I say anything remotely approaching that?

You first brought up sales taxes paid by illegal immigrants as if that offsets the massive cost of giving all the social services that will be given to them if they get mass amnesty. Which is patently ridiculous.

Then you said something patently false. That MOST states take in almost as much sales tax as income tax. Not true at all.

Deporting illegal immigrants isn't a violation of civil rights. But tossing out the 4th Amendment for all Americans in order to hunt down illegal immigrants because the government can't be bothered to find probably cause is a violation of civil rights.

Brief ICE detentions where they question you is not against the 4th Amendment.

The Supreme Court already ruled in 2005 that merely questioning and briefly detaining individuals in public places is not a violation of the 4th Amendment.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/boundvolumes/544bv.pdf#page=195

In INS v. Delgado, the Court held that immigration officers did not violate the Fourth Amendment by entering factory buildings (which the Court treated as "public places" because the officers had acted on either a warrant or the employer's consent) and questioning employees about their citizenship, even if there were armed officers stationed near the exit doors. The Court reasoned that the questioning was "nothing more than a brief encounter" that did not prevent the employees from going about their business.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Open a history book. These cultures have always clashed and always will.

 

[Hog-train]