are bigger stronger guys graded differently?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by envee, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. envee

    envee White Belt

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    are bigger stronger guys graded differently than everybody else? most of the time these guys tap out higher ranks using unorthodox strength moves. it is not uncommon to see a 250 lbs. all muscle guy tap out a 150 lb. purple or brown belt even though they are not very technical at all they use the little they know to tap out higher ranks. now time and time i see these guys get promoted fast. well i guess what im trying to ask is that:

    are bigger stronger _______ belts less technical and know less than the same _______belts who are smaller?


    my take on it is that smaller guys are more technical than the bigger guys of the same belt level. so a rooster weight in the purple belt division is far more advanced (in terms of hip movement and overall bjj knowledge) than an ultra heavyweight in the purple belt division. even though the ultra heavyweight can tap out the rooster weight, the rooster is a true purple belt while the ultra heavyweight might very well be only a white belt or a blue belt technique wise.
     
  2. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I disagree. The techniques of the two weight divisions are very different, but I don't think the bigger guy is necessarily less technical. Contrary to popular belief, pressure and heavy top control is very technical and hard to achieve. Big guys may not invert as much or play the same guards as smaller guys, but a lot of that has to do with strength to weight ratio and the increasing disadvantage that comes from being on bottom as weight goes up. I think big guys tend to have much better TDs and usually better guard passing and top games than smaller guys. Only in guard play do I feel like small guys are noticeably better, and again a guard isn't necessarily more technical just because you're upside down, it's just more flashy. I don't think big guys get promoted faster either, not at most reputable gyms.

    IMO it's just silly to say that someone like Caio Terra is more technical than Rodolfo Viera or whomever. Caio probably has a more technical guard, but I don't think his guard passing (and I'm sure his TDs) aren't as technical as Rodolfo's. To a large extent your size can influence your style, but using more basic moves applied extremely proficiently is not less technical than using really modern, inverted guards.

    Would you suggest Roger Gracie is less technical than Rafael Mendes? I certainly wouldn't.
     
  3. Knuckles69

    Knuckles69 Purple Belt

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    Very well said. The techniques are different at different weight classes, but that doesn't mean technical knowledge is lower or that there is less skill involved.

    In addition EVERYONE is graded differently. So big guys and small guys are graded differently from each other just like 2 big guys would be graded/evaluated differently.
     
  4. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    Isn't jiujitsu mostly graded on how successfully you implement your game on others? All the most revered game styles are generally the most simplistic (well maybe not nowadays).

    If you can only learn a handful of moves but implement them at the black belt level, that would make you a black belt IMO
     
  5. virtuoso

    virtuoso Blue Belt

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    Dang, laying down the law. I agree with everything you said.
     
  6. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    Nice "I'm not getting promoted quickly enough and have to find a reason that doesn't relate to me personally" thread.
     
  7. Higher Learning

    Higher Learning Brown Belt

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    this thread is terrible and you should feel bad about making it
     
  8. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    Takedowns and kimuras have "big guy" written all over it
     
  9. SUPERGRAPPLER

    SUPERGRAPPLER Purple Belt

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    Gold!
     
  10. Nomad Nemesis**

    Nomad Nemesis** Brown Belt

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    look, brah

    if you have an issue with gabi garcia just say so


    :p
     
  11. Knuckles69

    Knuckles69 Purple Belt

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    What about guys like Brandon Mullins? He has great take downs and uses the Kimura.

    The Kimura can be technical, most people don't do it optimally.
     
  12. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    kimura is for everyone, but ive noticed big guys usually have it as their break and butter, just from what Ive seen. also arm in chokes for some reason.
    i think of the trangle as a move preferred by skinny guys
     
  13. KGB256

    KGB256 Purple Belt

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    Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing, TS.
     
  14. Nasiello

    Nasiello Purple Belt

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    As a big guy, I'm pretty confident in my triangle. Even if I can't finish it, I love slapping on triangles during scrambles in an effort to secure dominant position.
     
  15. Knuckles69

    Knuckles69 Purple Belt

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    I think it's more whether you're a top game player or a bottom game player to a certain extent. The notable exception being Marcelo Garcia who just is awesome, has a great top game and plain doesn't believe much in the Kimura.

    It might be an over-simplification, but if you're a bottom game player you're going to like the triangle choke, and if you're a top game player you're going to like the kimura.
     
  16. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I love the kimura, but I rarely finish it. I just use it for control, armbars, and most often back takes. I do favor the triangle, I'm a lanky HW and it's always worked well for me. I think Marcelo doesn't like the kimura for the same reason he doesn't throw a lot of juji style armbars...kimuras can be very hard to finish against someone who is much bigger than you, and he designs his game to win absolute divisions. Hence all the back takes and chokes, which work against people of any size. Dave Camarillo, by contrast, absolutely loves the kimura but is a very medium sized guy at most.
     
  17. deadlizard

    deadlizard cold blooded

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    Your take is wrong.
     
  18. ILikeDogging

    ILikeDogging Blue Belt

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    Dude isn't talking about Roger Bucheca and Rodolfo.

    I agree with what he's saying but I think it's only really true for blue belt . Bigger guys at my gym do seem to get promoted earlier to blue and they do seem to have less technical knowledge and movement.

    I think after blue though it evens out. Weight becomes less of a factor as the lighter guys get good guards and learn how to deal with it better.
     
  19. deadlizard

    deadlizard cold blooded

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    You're probably a small guy.

    Try gaining 50 more lbs and roll with the bigger guys. Tell me your results.
     
  20. CaSe

    CaSe Brown Belt

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    but even if you only ever use just a few moves you have to at least be aware of a very large variety of moves
     

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