Arab-Israeli Conflict: Part 1

[Scrody]

This will get messy.

 

[WTF2008]

Diaz Bros understand you got to back your brother up to.

209 son.

It's a hoe move to throw your crew under the bus.



If Israel is a pet in your mind then it as at the least a very loyal and loving guard dog.

That's where I'm stuck. You say 'guard dog' and I see no part of that.

How does Israel benefit America?

 

[WTF2008]

here is the situation.

israel is in the middle of this and america is being pulled a long.

most nations dont really give a shit about palistine, but they do in passing. and their citizens do as well.

israel has been allowed to sustain a position almost unique, in being an aggressive hostile state, that gets away with it.

a lot of muslims give a shit about palestine. a lot of non muslims hate israel over it, and care about palestinians plight, in between expressos.

america getting involved in just what it has done so far, has destroyed americas image almost as much as the iraq war.

lastly, theres a lot of jews in america, so from a religious population point of view, its almost as important as israel. the populations are the same more or less and apaic could be more powerful than israel in a lot of ways too.

america needs to not be controlled by benji, and needs to have a consistent foreign policy.

this un thing was one of the great rebuttals to obama being a good president, and he took care of it as he left. nice one. im sure trump is doing everything he can to damage control.

This sounded like nonsense. Obama is just being an asshole on his way out.
He's like an ex girlfriend breaking all your shit as you kick her out.

 

[WTF2008]

I want a real, honest explanation of why the US gives billions of dollars to Israel.

 

[Supereem]

I want a real, honest explanation of why the US gives billions of dollars to Israel.

I am not going to lie to you.

 

[WTF2008]

I am not going to lie to you.

Lol. That's good I guess. Since anyone trying to tell me why would have to lie.

It's ridiculous and nobody can tell me why.

 

[Prutfis]

Well fuck that fascist shithole. The us has been their bitches in the un for to long. To bad the Donald is gong to be an israeli cuck

 

[matburn H]

http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-suspends-ties-with-12-un-security-council-nations-2016-12





http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-curtial-working-ties-with-security-council-nations/







Shit is hitting the fan. Israel is taking a very aggressive posture, hope Trump can calm things down but not much he can do after the fact.

There is absolutely things Trump can do. For starters, he can threaten to curtail the massive aid package we give them every single year, interest and default free, that they earn interest on unspent funds. We have them by the balls to do our bidding but god forbid you threaten the massive Israel lobby in this country. Maybe Trump can be that guy, considering he ran on a razor thin campaign budget and doesn't need Jew or Israel sympathizer money to win an election. I won't hold my breath tho.

 

[dfoster]

Lol. That's good I guess. Since anyone trying to tell me why would have to lie.

It's ridiculous and nobody can tell me why.

well basically we need a strong ally in the middle east

 

[JDragon]

It is unfortunate that Trump does not seem to be the one who will end the settlement farce, but who knows. Maybe he surprises me despite his 'I will blindly back Israel' stance.

Settlements and land-taking are the key problem in my opinion. It is in open defiance of international law and every new settlement is a new hurdle to any viable two state solution. Therefore talk about a two state solution from Netanyahu is all hot air imo. When I see @SouthoftheAndes is talking about a Palestenian state on Jordan soil, he is advocating ethnic cleansing.

All in all, not that smart of a move from Netanyahu.

 

[Arkain2K]

Israel plans more settlements; Abbas looks to Paris summit
Associated Press
December 27, 2016

RAMALLAH, West Bank - The Palestinian President said Tuesday that he hopes the upcoming Mideast conference in France will set a timetable to end settlements, as Israel moves ahead with new housing unit construction in east Jerusalem, despite the recent U.N. Security Council resolution condemning construction there.

The developments came just days after the United States broke with past practice and allowed the U.N. Security Council to condemn Israeli settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem as a “flagrant violation” of international law.

Mahmoud Abbas’s comments early Tuesday morning were his first public remarks since the U.N. vote.

“The decision lays the foundation for any future serious negotiation … and it paves the way for the international peace conference slated to be held in Paris next month and we hope this conference comes up with a mechanism and timetable to end the occupation,” Abbas told a meeting of his Fatah party. “The (resolution) proves that the world rejects the settlements, as they are illegal, in our occupied land including East Jerusalem.”

On Jan. 15, days before President Barack Obama leaves office, France is expected to host a Mideast conference where dozens of countries may endorse an international framework for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Netanyahu vehemently opposes such activity, saying it undermines the negotiating process.

Netanyahu has repeatedly called on Abbas to meet for direct talks without preconditions. Abbas has refused unless Israel ends settlement construction first.

The Palestinians claim the West Bank, along with east Jerusalem, home to holy sites sacred to Jews, Muslims and Christians, as parts of their future state. Israel says settlements, along with other core issues like security, should be agreed upon in peace talks.

Despite the U.N. resolution condemning settlements, Jerusalem Municipality is set to approve thousands of new housing units in the eastern sector of the city this week. The pro-Netanyahu daily Israel Hayom reported the Jerusalem District Zoning Committee is convening Wednesday to discuss approving fresh construction in that part of the city.

“We remain unfazed by the U.N. vote, or by any other entity that tries to dictate what we do in Jerusalem,” Deputy Jerusalem Mayor Meir Turgeman, who heads the zoning committee, told the paper this week. “I hope the Israeli government and the new U.S. administration will support us, so we can make up for the lack (of construction) during the eight years of the Obama administration.”

Netanyahu was outraged by the U.N. Security Council resolution and has declared a number of steps in response to the measure, which passed 14-0 with an American abstention.

Israel summoned ambassadors from council members, including the U.S., to protest. Netanyahu is recalling his nation’s ambassadors to New Zealand and Senegal for consultations and canceling a planned January visit to Israel by Senegal’s foreign minister. He also ended Israeli aid programs to the African country.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ettlements-abbas-looks-paris-summit/95866522/

 

[WTF2008]

well basically we need a strong ally in the middle east

Really? Clinton's campaign was pretty much financed by saudi arabia.
The 3rd largest ME power behind Israel and Turkey.

The Israel funding from the US has no good trade off.

It's still an outlier for me.

 

[Arkain2K]

Obama's Betrayal of Israel at the UN Must Not Stand
By David Shipley, Bloomberg
DEC 27, 2016

President Barack Obama’s ill-advised decision to order the U.S. to abstain on a United Nations resolution condemning Israeli settlements breaks with past U.S. policy, undermines a vital ally and sets back the cause of Middle East peace. Yet it also offers Democrats and Republicans a chance to unite around a more realistic approach to resolving one of the world’s most intractable conflicts.

The resolution, passed last week, says Israeli settlements built on land occupied since the 1967 war have “no legal validity.” It thus brands the one-tenth of Israel’s Jews who live in East Jerusalem and the West Bank as residential outlaws, and could thereby strengthen the effort to sanction or boycott Israel, or even sue it in international bodies.

Previous U.S. administrations have vetoed such resolutions for just that reason, and for undermining the course of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. As Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer correctly noted in condemning the administration’s decision, the “fervently anti-Israel” UN is “the wrong forum” for Israel and the Palestinians to settle their differences.

By abandoning past U.S. practice, Obama is encouraging the Palestinians in their belief that they can leverage the UN in their effort to achieve statehood. If anything, his decision is a failure of diplomacy and is likely to backfire. It runs the risk of increasing domestic pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, thereby fortifying his resolve to move ahead with settlements. Indeed, the wind is already blowing in this direction, with the Israeli government signaling Tuesday that it may escalate construction projects.

If the Palestinians want a lasting peace based on a two-state solution, they must accept that Israel, not the UN or the “international community,” is their negotiating partner. That means negotiating in good faith, not embracing empty resolutions that ignore agreements they have already reached to redraw Israel’s borders. It also means ending the “stabbing intifada,” condemning and fighting terrorism, and upholding their security obligations. Netanyahu, in turn, must be willing to uproot settlements that even Israeli law deems illegal, to trade land for peace, as Israel has done in the past, and to meet its security and economic obligations to Palestinians if they meet theirs.

The U.S., as the world's only superpower, has already walked away from its responsibility to save hundreds of thousands of Syrian lives, and it permitted a refugee exodus that is destabilizing Europe and may lead to the end of the European Union. To walk away from an ally critical both to U.S. security and to that of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates is ill-advised. To abandon a friend -- a lawful, stable democracy with a dynamic, innovative, outward-looking economy -- is inconceivable.

Fortunately, the bipartisan uproar sparked by Obama’s UN decision provides an opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to rally around a more constructive policy. They should start by agreeing to President-elect Donald Trump’s plans to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem -- a step envisioned but never taken by presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. That would provide a powerful reaffirmation to Israel –- a nation born after the slaughter of six million Jews, and under siege since its birth -- of the U.S.’s enduring commitment, and to the world of Israel’s right to exist. That reaffirmation, in turn, is essential in providing Israel with the confidence to move ahead with a two-state solution.

The U.S. will continue to play a crucial role in helping both sides choose the best way forward. In the choice between terror and peace, and democracy and repression, there can be no room for impartiality, let alone abstention.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...s-betrayal-of-israel-at-the-un-must-not-stand

 

[tramendous]

Every time an Arab coalition of countries banded together to try and wipe out Israel, Israel ended up with more territory.

Israel has been productive with the small amount of territory it controls.

Arab states should fully give up any notion of Israel going away. It's just not going to happen.

this is the way to go. what the arabs should do is concentrate on the standard of living and economies of their own country. with their population and land, israel shouldn't be able to compete in the long term. meanwhile they should keep racking up the diplomatic and later on economic pressure to either A) force a 1 state solution or 2) get enough leverage to make a palestinian state viable in the UN.

i think its been established rather clearly that they are not going to defeat israel militarily. especially now that israel has nukes. really there is no reason that egypt should be behind israel other than egypt being neutered politically.

 

[Arkain2K]

Kerry Plans Middle East Speech as Israel Retaliates Over UN Snub
by Michael Arnold, Udi Segal, and Jonathan Ferziger
December 27, 2016​

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will offer a “comprehensive vision” for how Middle East peace can be achieved in a speech Wednesday in Washington, as Israel steps up its response to a censure from the United Nations over the construction of settlements in the West Bank.

With barely three weeks left in the Obama administration, Kerry will lay out his plan as tensions over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s policies threaten to leave Israel more isolated internationally. Along with the Kerry speech, France is gathering dozens of foreign ministers in Paris on Jan. 15 to discuss the conflict. Israeli officials say that could result in a proposal they view as unfavorable, which may then be taken to the UN for a seal of approval.

The U.S. last week broke with tradition and decided not to veto a UN Security Council resolution condemning the West Bank settlements. Israel has already moved to limit ties with countries that voted for the resolution, rebuked member states’ representatives, recalled ambassadors from co-sponsors New Zealand and Senegal and pledged to cut off nearly $8 million in funding to UN institutions.

Kerry, describing himself as a “lifelong friend of Israel,” defended the U.S. decision to abstain on the vote in a Dec. 23 statement, warning that the possibility of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict “is now in jeopardy, with terrorism, violence and incitement continuing and unprecedented steps to expand settlements being advanced by avowed opponents of the two state solution.”

‘Possibility of Peace’

“That is why we cannot in good conscience stand in the way of a resolution at the United Nations that makes clear that both sides must act now to preserve the possibility of peace,” Kerry said.

Shmuel Sandler, a political scientist at Bar-Ilan University’s Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, said Netanyahu is under pressure to respond to the UN vote with a wave of new construction. Education Minister Naftali Bennett, whose Jewish Home party opposes a Palestinian state, has called for Israel to annex large swathes of the West Bank, though Netanyahu has ordered Cabinet members to cease all talk of annexation for now.

“He’s under pressure from Bennett to build, but if he’s going to build it has to be limited,” Sandler said. “No matter what, he has to wait for the Trump administration before doing anything substantial in the settlements. He’s aware that Kerry’s speech is coming up, the Paris conference is coming up and Obama still has ways to hurt him.”

Apartment Construction

The Jerusalem municipal planning committee on Wednesday is set to review requests to build hundreds of apartments in East Jerusalem. That would contradict the terms of Resolution 2334, which demands that Israel halt all building in areas it won in the 1967 Middle East war and brands construction there illegal.

The moves would expand on steps Israel has taken since the Security Council vote. A senior Israeli official said the government is also weighing fresh measures against UN agencies it considers particularly hostile, including the UN Relief and Works Agency, which serves Palestinian refugees; the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs; and the UN observer force on the Golan Heights. Israel could restrict new recruits to the agencies, delay visas for their officials and halt or delay visits of experts to those agencies, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the issue is sensitive.

Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for UNRWA, said such steps against the agency would be unprecedented. “We have not heard anything directly, we’ve just seen media reports” about potential steps, he said.

Israel says last week’s UN resolution will convince Palestinians they can get what they want without having to negotiate, making them more intransigent. Netanyahu has already warned his Cabinet that the vote may not be Washington’s last foray into the region in the waning days of the Barack Obama administration.

The Palestine Liberation Organization, in a statement Tuesday, called for the International Criminal Court to consider “an immediate judicial inquiry” on whether Israeli construction of settlements in occupied territory can be prosecuted as a war crime.

After the vote, Netanyahu lashed out at Obama, saying the U.S. pushed the resolution behind the scenes and broke a commitment to shield Israel from imposed UN conditions. The U.S. decision to abstain rather than veto the resolution allowed it to pass.

Obama was highly critical of Israel’s settlements from the moment he entered office. The two leaders then clashed publicly over the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, with Netanyahu denouncing it in a speech to Congress that wasn’t coordinated with the White House and that soured relations further.

Netanyahu is hoping things turn around under U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who will take office Jan. 20. Trump has pledged to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and his choice of ambassador to Israel, attorney David Friedman, is a strong supporter of the settlements. On Tuesday Trump also appointed Thomas Bossert, a campaign adviser on Israeli issues, to be his assistant for homeland security and counter terrorism

Trump promised the Israeli-U.S. relationship would change after the UN vote, saying in a pair of posts on his Twitter account that “The big loss yesterday for Israel in the United Nations will make it much harder to negotiate peace. Too bad, but we will get it done anyway!” That followed an earlier vow saying “As to the U.N., things will be different after Jan. 20th.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...sent-vision-for-an-israeli-palestinian-accord

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

Thanks Obama.

 

[Blackened]

John Kohn, I mean... John Kerry obviously doesn't have any bias when it comes to Israel.

 

[Sauron]

I'm sure all of those nations are wetting themselves at the prospect of Israel isolating itself.

Without US protection Israel is a tiny country that is very vulnerable. Bibi should remember that next time he tries to undermine the sitting president.

 

[Arkain2K]

Just to catch up on the thread, what Israel does with the OTs is a question that has to be answered without falling back to pointing out Arab failures in foreign policy.

Sure they have nothing to offer. It's also beside the point. Their propaganda is BS. The question remains, what is Israel going to do with this abortion in the OTs?

Ideally there should be unilateral action from Israel that mimics the general condense on what a peace plan looks like including carve outs and land swaps. The problem is Israeli voters will never go for it, why would they?

My prediction is that when the Arab-Israeli Conflict is resolved, the re-negotiated borders will be something along the line of 65% to the State of Israel (including West Jerusalem), 35% to the State of Palestine (including all the Arab residential areas in East Jerusalem), and most of the settlements in the West Bank will be handed over to the Palestinians.

For strategic/security purposes, Israel will ofcourse keep the Golan Heights that they won from Syria's failed invasion. Hamas will rejects to the treaty, saying that Abbas has no authority to sign it, and they will continue firing rockets into Israel from the Gaza strip whenever they're feeling moody.

PS: Here's a good read from five years ago, when Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas finally admit that the Arabs rejecting the 1947 U.N partition plan was a stupid mistake, and was immediately condemned by his Islamic counterpart.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas faults Arab refusal of 1947 U.N. Palestine plan
By Dan Williams | JERUSALEM
Oct 28, 2011​

​

(Reuters) - Arabs made a "mistake" by rejecting a 1947 U.N. proposal that would have created a Palestinian state alongside the nascent Israel, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in an interview aired on Friday.

Palestinian leaders have always insisted that General Assembly Resolution 181, which paved the way for Jewish statehood in parts of then British-ruled Palestine, must be resisted by Arabs who went to war over it.

Decades of regional fighting have hinged on challenges to Israel's existence and expansion. By describing historical fault on the Arab side, Abbas appeared to be offering Israel an olive branch while promoting his own bid to sidestep stalled peace talks by winning U.N. recognition for a sovereign Palestine.

"At that time, 1947, there was Resolution 181, the partition plan, Palestine and Israel. Israel existed. Palestine diminished. Why?" he told Israel's top-rated Channel Two television, speaking in English.

When the interviewer suggested the reason was Jewish leaders' acceptance of the plan and its rejection by the Arabs, Abbas said: "I know, I know. It was our mistake. It was our mistake. It was an Arab mistake as a whole. But do they punish us for this mistake (for) 64 years?"

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has blamed the Palestinians for the diplomatic deadlock, citing what he described as a refusal by Abbas to recognise the roots of the conflict and encourage his people to accept the Jewish state.

Netanyahu's office declined immediate comment on Abbas's remarks, which Channel Two broadcast over the Jewish Sabbath.

Abbas, whose U.N. manoeuvring is opposed by Israel and the United States, says the problem is the Netanyahu government's continued settlement of the West Bank, where, along with the Gaza Strip, Palestinians now seek a state. Israel occupied those territories in the 1967 war and withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

U.N. solemnisation of their independence would help Palestinians pursue negotiations with Israel, which in turn could produce an "extra agreement that we put an end to the conflict," Abbas told Channel Two.

His language raised the hackles of his Islamist Hamas rivals, who control Gaza and with whom Abbas is trying to consolidate an Egyptian-brokered power-sharing accord.

Hamas opposes permanent coexistence with the Jewish state and has drawn core support from Palestinians dispossessed in the 1947-1948 war, when Israel overran Arab forces to take territory beyond that allotted it by Resolution 181.

"No one is authorised to speak on behalf of the Palestinian people and no one is authorised to wipe out any of the historical rights of our people," said Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza.

"There is no need for Abu Mazen (Abbas) to beg the Occupation," Barhoum said, using a Hamas term for Israel.

Alluding to political turmoil which, in U.S.-aligned countries such as Egypt and Jordan, has emboldened popular hostility to Israel, Barhoum said Abbas "should arm himself with the emerging Arab support."

Asked on Channel Two how he could bring Hamas to agree to peacemaking, Abbas, himself a refugee from a town now in northern Israel, said: "Leave it to us, and we will solve it."

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKTRE79R66U20111028

 

[jeffk]

As one who thinks the two states for two people is the best chance for peace, I thought this is good analysis

https://ottomansandzionists.com/2016/12/27/unscr-2334/

UNSCR 2334
December 27, 2016 § 10 Comments


Point one is that UNSCR 2334 is a deeply flawed resolution that should not have passed and that will only make matters worse. The overwhelming majority of Israelis do not and cannot accept, treating the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and Amona as one and the same.

It is because it betrayed a complete and total misunderstanding of the state of Israeli politics and created an immediate incentive for this Israeli government to build anywhere it wants with total abandon.


Point two is that you can inveigh against President Obama all you want, but the one who actually owns this debacle is Prime Minister Netanyahu. If you truly want to be upset at someone, direct your ire at him.